ASI290MC-Cooled USB3.0 issue with High Speed turned on

topboxman

I just received ASI290MC-Cool and did an indoor test with this camera and I am getting bad Bayer Matrix artifacts using USB 3.0 and "HighSpeed" enabled in FireCapture (version 2.5.05beta_x64). Also the histogram in FireCapture looks pretty bad.

If I disable "HighSpeed" which probably runs at USB 2.0 speed, the video image and histogram looks much better.

I have uploaded screen shots for both "HighSpeed" enabled and disabled. Notice the right side of the histogram is clipped with "HighSpeed" enabled as compared to "HighSpeed" disabled. With "HighSpeed" disabled, the histogram looks much smoother but runs at USB2.0 speed and would like to run at USB3.0 speed.

"HighSpeed" enabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gfxenxpvml136gm/ASI290MC-Cool_USB3_HighSpeed_On.jpg?dl=0

"HighSpeed" disabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9e68o0sgb3pr6l/ASI290MC-Cool_USB3_HighSpeed_Off.jpg?dl=0

Blink in between both images and notice the "HighSpeed" enabled image degrades as compared to "HighSpeed" disabled image.

The images above are with "DeBayer" checked while running FireCapture. With "DeBayer" un-checked made no difference.

I have tried other video capture softwares and they all behave exact same way as with FireCapture.

I am using "ZWO ASI Cameras driver Setup V1.3.5.20" driver for ASI290MC-Cool.

I also have ASI120MC-S and did the same indoor test and it works perfectly and probably better than my ASI290MC-Cool but ASI120MC-S uses different driver (version ASI120MC-S_Setup_V1-6) than ASI290MC-Cool. I use two different USB 3.0 cables for both cameras and because ASI120MC-S works well, I have eliminated USB 3.0 cables as part of the problem.

Please advise.

Thanks,

Peter

topboxman

But if I capture (not video but individual subs) with Nebulosity and SGP using ASCOM driver version 1.0.2.9 running at USB 3.0 speed, the images look fine.

It appears my ASI290MC-Cool only has issue with ZWO native driver (version V1.3.5.20) and video capture software like FireCapture running in "HighSpeed" mode or USB 3.0.

Peter

rodmac

I seem to be getting the same behaviour with my ASI178MC when I record AVI through firecapture - very noticeable with debayer off but still there when debayer is turned on.

Rod

topboxman

Hi Rod,

What you are seeing is exactly what I am seeing and I do not think this is normal.

My ASI120MC-S works perfectly with "HighSpeed" mode enabled and USB 3.0.

Peter

rodmac

Peter,

No it does not seem right at all? I'll do some more experimenting indoors and see if I can isolate it any further.

I also used the camera for guiding with PHD2 and it guided fine and image look normal as well so you may be right in that it is a Firecapture issue?

Thanks

Rod

topboxman

It's either FireCapture (or other video capture software) not being able to handle USB 3.0 speed, ZWO native driver or the camera itself.

If I do not get a response about how to resolve this issue in the next few days, I will have to return the camera for an exchange or refund.

Peter

rpineau

The Highspeed/Lowspeed setting is not controlling the USB speed but the 12 bit versus 10 bit mode of the camera.

So in Low speed you're capturing at 12 bit resolution, and in High speed you're capturing at 10 bit resolution which might be the cause of your issue if the software doesn't know about the 10 bit mode.

In both case, if the camera is on a USB3 port you're capturing at USB3 speed.

Rodolphe

topboxman

That's interesting to know and thanks for telling me this. I notice the frame can be higher with "HighSpeed" mode enabled. I would find an object and try to set the exposure times as short as possible and set the gain to a reasonable amount to get maximum frame rate, then I would enable/disable the "HighSpeed" mode and notice the frame rate can be quite a bit higher with "HighSpeed" mode enabled.

So are you saying that whether "HighSpeed" mode is enabled or not, it's always running at USB3.0 speed but at different number of bits (12 bits vs 10 bits)?

I always thought "HighSpeed" mode means an equivalent of USB 3.0 speed.

Peter

topboxman

Another thing I want to mention is I have tested with two different computers. One is a HP Envy laptop (Intel i5) and other is a home built but very high end and bleeding edge Intel i7 Quad Core with hyperthreading CPU desktop computer and both computers behave the exact same way as I describe in Original Post.

Peter

topboxman

I installed latest SharpCap Beta version 2.9.2672.0 and I am getting the exact same horrible Matrix artifacts with "High Speed Mode" enabled (turned on). Also, it does not matter what the USB Traffic setting is, I am getting the same behavior at minimum or maximum USB Traffic for both SharpCap and FireCapture.

Sam,

Please tell us more about this. Is this camera designed to work with "High Speed" mode? Also does "High Speed" mode mean 10 bits or something else? Is this normal behavior for ASI290MC-Cool camera?

I am trying to decide to keep or return this camera since my ASI120MC-S seems to behave better than ASI290MC-Cool.

Peter

topboxman

OK, I found more information about High Speed Mode:

http://zwoptical.com/Eng/Cameras/ASI174/software_index.asp

"High Speed: the camera will output 10bit ADC data if enable "High speed", otherwise 12bit ADC is used. the read noise of 10bit ADC is much higher than 12bit ADC, so you should NEVER check it for astronomy imaging."

So I guess ASI290MC camera is not designed to work in "High Speed" mode unless Sam says it differently.

Peter

topboxman

Sam,

Do you think my ASI290MC-Cool camera is defective? It does not seem to work well for "High Speed" mode enabled? Is it possible that the camera may have incorrect firmware loaded?

Thanks,

Peter

Sam@ZWO

for SONY sensor

high speed checked will double the speed and use 10bit ADC

unchecked high speed will use 12bit ADC

10bit ADC only provide around 10bit dynamic range

but the dynamic range drops if you turn up gain

so there is no difference with 10bit ADC or 12bit ADC if the gain is very high

for your problem, I think it just a zoom view problem

seems you changed the ROI position

you can just capture one frame and compare side by side

It should be no difference

topboxman

Hi Sam,

If you took a closer look at my screen shots in my original post, they were taken at maximum resolution, no ROI was used. I will try to figure out how to capture single frame with FireCapture or SharpCap with "High Speed" mode enabled to see if it makes any difference.

But why does it look so good with my ASI120MC-S with High Speed mode enabled with FireCapture? Here is my first ever Saturn image taken with TEC 140 APO scope and TeleVue 4x PowerMate and ASI120MC-S:

https://peternagy.smugmug.com/Telescopes/Planets/

I have not yet taken any photos with ASI290MC-Cool under dark sky due to smoke from nearby fire.

Peter

Sam@ZWO

120MC-S always use 12bit ADC, so high speed and low speed no difference completly

but 290 did have difference(10bit ADC and 12bit ADC)

you can capture a single frame and attach for us to check

undebayed frame should be better

topboxman

Hi Sam,

Here are the images from ASI290MC-Cool camera you requested. All of them are unbayered and captured by FireCapture.

5 second AVI with "HighSpeed" disabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/aebzhzah7cg54kn/ASI290MC-Cool_HighSpeed_Off_5seconds.avi?dl=0

5 second AVI with "HighSpeed" enabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/twnhk9zxtwhotih/ASI290MC-Cool_HighSpeed_On_5seconds.avi?dl=0

1 frame AVI with "HighSpeed" disabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofr36wplbwbxqig/ASI290MC-Cool_HighSpeed_Off_1_Frame.avi?dl=0

1 frame AVI with "HighSpeed" enabled: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lymonn7xn6z7omk/ASI290MC-Cool_HighSpeed_On_1_Frame.avi?dl=0

Please let us know what you found.

Thanks,

Peter

Sam@ZWO

seems it did has problem on the image, this should be a old bug

may I ask FC's version?

can you update to the latest one and try again V2.5.06

topboxman

I am using FireCapture 2.5.05 Beta version which it appears to be the very latest version. I was not aware of 2.5.06 version. I will look for the latest version and let you know. In the meantime and in case I cannot find 2.5.06 version, please provide a link.

Thanks,

Peter

topboxman

Ok, I found 2.5.06 version of FireCapture. The "HighSpeed" mode do look better but it still shows similar Bayer Matrix artifacts as with 2.5.05 version capture of FireCapture but not as bad.

But with "HighSpeed" mode disabled, it looked pretty good. I think I understand the behavior of 10 bits capture which can degrade the quality of the image as compared to 12 bits capture. I will keep this camera for a while and plan to always use 12 bits capture.

Thanks,

Peter

Sam@ZWO

yes,12bit ADC is always suggested!