Polar alignment with SkyGuider Pro - FAILS!

PMTeam@ZWO

Hello, our PA test is good. We didn't find this problem. Can you upload the log

darkmatter

Disconnecting the mount in the Asiair menu before starting PA is definitely the way to go. I have a different issue with the PA routine (see here) and my workaround is to disconnect the mount. If the Asiair sees a mount connected it'll probably expect some kind of feedback from it, and my guess is that this piece of code is flawed. If there's no mount connected Asiair will actually tell you to move the mount manually. So nowadays my routine is: disconnect mount, do PA routine, reconnect mount and from that point onward everything works normally.

Oh yeah, regarding uploading the log: that'll send the log of your current session so unless you're actually under the stars at the moment and have an active internet connection it'll provide no useful information. So if you're using a wifi-only tablet to control the Asiair and are out in the middle of nowhere, you can never send a log.

Jarno

marco

darkmatter Thanks for this. I had to find the hard way, i.e. by wasting two absolutely clear nights unable to do the PA at all. And I found out that both the SGP had to be switched off and the mount off as well on the mount tab for the PA routine to advance. And after I did all of this - as none of this is stated anywhere at the ZWO Webiste or manuals, I really also wondered how useful the PA is with the SGP given that this tracker, being entirely manual, doesn't have a home position per se. There's no way to start a session with the telescope perfectly aligned with the mount as is the case with GoTo ones. It's only an approximation and, in the darkness, it could be a bad one. But, on the other hand, alignment with the built in iPolar, which actually aligns the mount, is I think a better way to go.

As for the logs, I need to see what's there and from what session. But if, as you say, the ASIAir only keeps logs for the current session, then this way of finding out what's been happening is not very useful at all.

Cheers.

dean

Yep, when using SkyGuider Pro, switch off the mount before initiating Polar Alignment. The app will let you know that no mount is detected, confirm that. Then proceed with manual rotation and Polar Alignment. Switch mount back on after alignment.

dean

Reference above, I switch off the mount in the application. Have not tried switching off the SGP with its power switch.

marco

dean I had to do both. Simply starting the PA with the mount switched off wasn't enough. I also had to turn off the mount on the app itself. And only then did the app generate a warning message saying that no mount was connected and proceeded to let the PA routine advance.

marco

@asiair@zwo#41338 Does the ASIAir keep logs from previous sessions or only from the current session? If also from previous sessions, then I am sure to have the log of past failed polar alignments. If not, it'll just have the log of the last successful alignment.

darkmatter

this tracker, being entirely manual, doesn't have a home position per se. There's no way to start a session with the telescope perfectly aligned with the mount

I've found that this isn't really necessary for successful polar alignment. As long as the area around the pole is visible, it'll work. In fact, it was suggested to me that in order to solve my own PA issue I should start with the mount already rotated by 60 degrees so its end position would be the home position. It didn't solve the issue but PA still worked.

I don't know how accurate the iPolar is but I'm assuming it's similar to the Polemaster. I've found the Asiairs PA routine (flawed as its mount control may be) to be extremely accurate with PA errors of less than 1'. I've gone hours on end without PHD having to make a correction larger than +/- 2 arcseconds so it may actually have been responding to seeing rather than drift. I definitely didn't get that kind of accuracy with the Polemaster.

Jarno

marco

darkmatter Yes, the iPolar is essentially the same as the Polemaster, with its own software though. But both do the same and do it extremely well. It's what I used with my GEM45 as well. Once past the PA stuff, I also can't get the ASIAir/PHD to effectively do guiding with the SGP. Not once! I've got another threat on this issue going with these support groups and have noticed other people reporting the same issues I've encountered. a) turn off DEC guiding both right above the graph and on the guiding tab (RA only); b) use different combinations of exp times and gain settings (low, med, high); c) focus guide scope as sharp as possible and pick a suitable star (or let PHD do it for me); in all cases and combos, after just 5-10 seconds, the RMS error begins to rise rapidly until it's totally off the chart/graph. So I restart the routine again, follow/test all the steps above, to no good result. I've checked and rechecked basic things like guide scope focal length, ST4 cable connection from camera to mount, USB cable connection from camera to ASIAir, etc. No can do. Anything else?
Marco

w7ay

marco

Marco,

If you are willing to run Beta software, I notice that ASIAIR 1.5.1 Beta has been released to iOS TestFlight.

Be sure to save a copy of the v1.5 microSD card, in case v1.5.1 is even more broken, and you need to revert from v1.5.1 beta back to v1.5.

Chen

marco

w7ay Hi Chen. Do you know if the 1.5.1 beta in fact addresses the guiding problem we're discussing here?
Marco

w7ay

marco Do you know if the 1.5.1 beta in fact addresses the guiding problem we're discussing here?

No idea, Marco. The release logs are always cryptic and incomplete. You can see the log in the iOS TestFlight update, scroll down past the Chinese log to see it in English.

Chen

jaymanr

I have been dealing with this issue for two months now, actually returning one unit thinking it was defective with the retailer agreeing. I tried last night again with my new unit and the same results. Cannot get to the second part the of PA. Will not acknowledge I've moved the RA 60 degrees. This has been extremely frustrating as it's been an hours drive in each direction to my observing site with about 4 trips and last night it was below freezing. The ASIair Pro came very close last night to end up in the near by lake.
I have been searching Youtube for answers with no luck but found this post by accident. I'm going to give this solution a try the next clear night but it's really to bad ZWO didn't mention this anywhere in the instructions.
I'm using a Nikon D850 as main scope and a ZWO 120mm mini with a ZWO 30mm scope for guiding along with the Sky Guider Pro.

marco

I know exactly how you feel. I found this solution purely by accident while watching Peter Zelinka on YouTube just casually saying that before doing the PA one has to physically turn off the SGP. I did, but that wasn't enough. I also had to turn it off on the telescope tab of the ASIAir app. Once the PA is complete, then the mount can be switched on and the ST4 on camera mount setting on the telescope tab can also be turned on. And after doing all of this, finally completing the PA, then the guiding DOES NOT WORK either. No matter what and no matter what other people may be experiencing with GoTo scopes. On the SGP, guiding just doesn't work with the latest version of the software, that is, 1.5. So, for now (or when there's a clear night), the ASIAir is only good for capturing but without any guiding. And since, in my case, the iPolar does an excellent PA on its own, turns out that the ASIAir is not needed for PA either. Just capturing.
Marco

jaymanr

Marco, I watched a number of Peter Zelinka's videos to and that's why I bought this set up. I don't remember seeing him turn off the SGP for doing the PA, guess I'll have to go back and watch his videos again. I didn't buy the i Polar version of the SGP because Peter said we didn't need it if we were using the ASIair Pro. Now your making me nervous that the ASIair Pro won't guide the SGP even once the PA is completed. HMMM.
When I first encountered this problem and contacted the retailer, they told me they contacted ZWO and were told they were not aware of this issue but here we are on a ZWO forum and we are not the first to have PA issues with the ASIair Pro. Sure would make me feel a little better if ZWO would at least acknowledge the problem and that they are working on it.

marco

I do have another thread on the guiding problem. But even in this thread, might want to take a look at Chen's reply. The guiding problem on SGPs may well be a bug in the current version of the software (1.5) and we'll have to wait a bit for ZWO to release an updated version with this bug ironed out. Hopefully.
Marco

AstroDude42

Hi guys, sorry for the late response. I just read this thread and as as i am using the SGP and the ASIAir Pro as well, i thought about sharing my experience. I am able to polar align and do pretty good guiding using this setup.

What i am missing in this thread is what you actually connect to the SGP’s ST4 port. I have my ASI 1600MM Pro connected to the ASIAir Pro’s USB3 port. My ASI 290MM Mini guide camera is connected to the 1600MM via USB2 (for power) and (!) directly to the SGP’s ST4 port.

When i start a session, i disable the mount in the ASIAir’s settings (touch the telescope icon, then switch off the toggle button in the upper right). For me it does not matter if the SGP is turned on or off during PA. Usually i keep it on to prevent elongated stars. After focusing i start ASIAir’s PA routine. As Chen pointed out (in another thread) i do not start at 0”. In my case it’s because a roof is in the way to Polaris. I rotate about 15-20 degrees to the east. After initial plate solving in PA i turn the RA axis manually about 60 degrees to the west and hit “continue”. From there it’s about turning the knobs until total error is below 2 arcsecs. When PA is done, i choose my target by manually changing RA and Dec, enable the mount in ASIAir’s settings, go to the guiding view, start by touching the “loop” icon and then select my guide star. When the mount did its calibration (which never failed on me) i am able to start imaging.

Hope this helps to solve your problems. Good luck and clear skies!

[edit]: i use the latest ASIAir app and firmware (v1.5).

Best, Oliver

marco

Hi Oliver,
I do absolutely everything you describe and, indeed, a few extra things. The PA is possible, only, if the SGP is off (one way or another) and the ASIAir app generates a message saying the telescope is off or cannot be detected. Then you hit "skip" and you can proceed to manually rotate the RA by 60 degrees. Once I'm past all of this, I too do all you mention for the guiding part + make sure of a few extra steps. But on version 1.5 and the SGP (RA only, DEC off, etc.), guiding just doesn't work. And I know it's not my gear as I'm using gear that' been tried and tested on PHD, Sequence Generator, NINA, etc. So all the steps you describe are the steps that one's supposed to follow and I do follow, but the PA thing is buggy (the ASIAir app should detect through the ST4 connection that is is dealing with a non-GoTo mount and shouldn't expect to get info back from the scope at all). And the guiding is definitely buggy. Are you using version 1.5 of the ASIAir app and the latest SGP firmware?
Marco

AstroDude42

Hi Marco,

sorry to hear it still does not work for you! I can confirm about the extra steps i forgot to mention (ASIAir wants confirmation that mount can not be detected) – it's the same over here, just forgot to write it down from memory in my last post. And yes, before starting to loop in the guiding view, i make sure that it's RA only and DEC is off, too. For aggressiveness, i still use the default values (never touched those).

As noted in the edit of my last post, I use the the ASIAir app versioned 1.5-6.76 and Firmware 1.5, both are the latest official release from last month. Actually, i don't know which firmware my SGP has installed. I bought it in 2019 and never updated it, because i thought it would be the latest firmware as the last release from iOptron was in 2017.

Best, Oliver

jaymanr

AstroDude42 and Marco,
I'm going to give this a try tomorrow night if it's not too cold. Supposed to be in the upper 20's. I emailed my retailer and they indicated ZWO would like a copy of my "Auto Run Log" but I'm not sure how to retrieve it for uploading. I checked my iphone from my last attempt and the auto run log is blank so I'm guessing it's something that has to be saved before shutting down the app. Has anyone done that before?
JaymanR