Connecting ASIAIR Pro to Celestron Evolution Mount: Page 2

Connecting ASIAIR Pro to Celestron Evolution Mount

w7ay

Is this the mount that you guys are using?

https://www.celestron.com/blogs/knowledgebase/usb-additional-information

If so, take a look at the description; it is pushing 5V out on the power pin; a device (USB Type B) should only accept power, not supply it (they are probably using that to power some device of theirs like a hand controller or WiFi dongle).

Unless the 5V supply in the ASIAIR is larger than the 5V from the mount, this could be back-powering the Raspberry Pi (ASIAIR).

If that is a problem, an unpowered hub might work to sufficiently isolate the power. If not, you may need to use a hub that is known not to backpower a Raspberry Pi, or do the typical solution among Raspberry Pi users and snip pin 1 in the cable.

See here about hubs backpowering the Raspberry Pi:

https://elinux.org/RPi_Powered_USB_Hubs

I had tried a dozen hubs before I finally found one that did not backpower the Raspberry Pi. Some of the powered hub won't even allow ASIAIR to boot up.

Chen

mj972

w7ay Chen, this is interesting, although I’m not sure as to why the HC might be sending current out the miniUSB port - it is not connected to the USB port on the mount used to power other devices (and I’m not using it regardless). I am going to try to turn off the power USB port and see whether this has any effect. I’ll also try to find a non powered usb hub and see whether this helps.

will update later on.

jon

update: I was unable to turn the power to the USB port off, as the only two options are ‘automatic’ power management (this is the default) and ‘always on’. Still haven’t tried the USB hub option.

mj972

Another thought - I might try using a more powerful power adapter to provide current to the AAP - I currently use a 5V 2A power supply. Maybe if I increase the amperage of the power supply it will prevent current flowing back from the handset to the pi.

w7ay

mj972 I might try using a more powerful power adapter to provide current to the AAP - I currently use a 5V 2A power supply.

That is way way too low. Just the Raspberry Pi 4 runs 0.6A typically, and more when you are doing some real processing (like downloading the sensor data).

You don't have to go to extremes like I do (25A continuous load power supply), but try to use a power supply that can source at least 5A.

Remember that you will also need to power the bus powered USB devices. The Raspberry Pi 4 can supply up to a total of 1A.

If you repeat my experiment with just a hub connected to the ASIAIR USB ports, the ASIAIR should at least say "Not Connected" instead of "Not found" in the Telescope Setup window. And perhaps you can start from there to see if the mount will talk through the hub.

When the ASIAIR says "Not found," it looks like it could not find any USB/serial port connected to it. But as you mentioned, the mount can be seen by other computers.

Chen

Tech@ZWO

mj972 Another thought - I might try using a more powerful power adapter to provide current to the AAP - I currently use a 5V 2A power supply.

Can you confirm you are using 5V 2A power supply? We recommend a 12-15V 2-6A power supply. ASIAIR PRO uses 2A while working alone, and the power supply should be able to power all device that connects to ASIAIR PRO. This is the basic requirement.

StarBrowser

Chen, based on your suggestions, I did some experiments. I did have a couple of USB hubs laying about: one was unpowered and the other could be powered but I didn't use the power supply. In both cases, the AAP app reports that it can't connect to a device on the USB ports. However, I found that it does the same thing if nothing is attached to any of the AAP USB ports - as it still thanks something attached (AAP power was cycled and the app rebooted in each case. So didn't seem to prove much there. I did notice that throughout this experiment, the words next to "Serial" never changed from "Not Found" - just the pop up messages talked about being unable to connect.

I then performed a one star alignment and tried connecting the scope to the AAP through an unpowered USB hub. No change in result. Without powering down I then connected the HC via USB directly (no hub) to my laptop that was running Stellarium and it connected just fine and I could control the scope. Next without changing anything, I then move the cable back to the AAP (hoping the state of the scope USB interface would be different) but no change there. Tried this rebooting the app as well. No change. I then returned the cable connection back to the laptop and it still connected just fine to Stellarium and I could control the scope. So the scope USB interface was working before and after trying to connect to AAP.

I then noticed that in the Stellarium configuration window for my scope I was not using the INDI driver, but instead it was set to use External Software which in this case I assume is the Telescope Plugin for Stellarium. I tried switching to the INDI driver option but I was then unable to connect to the telescope.

So it looks like the USB port of the scope is working but there might be an issue with it interfacing with the INDI driver. My understanding is that the AAP uses the INDI driver so that might be the issue.

I need to repeat some of these experiments again, but won't have time until Wednes or Thurs to do so. Want to avoid any false conclusions.

StarBrowser

One other quick note. While the USB hubs were unpowered, power from the host side device (in this case the AAP) was still connected through to the USB on the HC which it would power up the screen and result in the "Initialize" error. So you still need to powerup and align the scope before connecting to the miniUSB port of the HC.

mj972

StarBrowser I won’t have time to check things out until this evening, but I’ll also try and see whether using a usb hub has any effect on the issue. I’ll also try putting a piece of tape on the +5V pin of the USB cable and see whether this allows the AAP to connect.

I’ll just say that I have been using the INDI driver using KStars, and it did work, so I’m not sure @StarBrowser ‘s experience provides conclusive evidence regarding this.
will update (hopefully) tonight.

mj972

StarBrowser how are you powering your AAP? What amperage?

Tech@ZWO

mj972
You can refer to below similar case, somthing like abnormal power supply/voltage which will never come to our mind unless customers can find it by themselves, but these things somtimes can literally cause some strange issues.

StarBrowser

Just catching up.

mj972 I am using a 3A 12v supply for the AAP so it sounds like I may need to up that. But not sure how efficiently the AAP converts that down to 5v. If efficient, that would be at least 6A @5v. I will probably do some voltage level checks when and where I can. Sound like power is becoming an area of focus on this thread.

Jayair, it sounds like you have tried options with plenty of power and no success. You also tried Stellarium and found it worked. Did you look at what config you were using for the telescope control? Was it INDI or one of the other options.

Chen, I will try connecting the unpowered hubs that I have to the USB3 ports. I think I only tried it on the USB2 ports with nothing else connected. As I noted I never saw "Not Connected" after the word "Serial" on my EAA either. I may need to try reloading the firmware as well. I didn't think to backup before I launched the App the first time when it checks and has you update to latest rev which I think was 1.6.2. What do you mean by original microSD card image? Is that always some lower base level revision of the code? How is it different from the current download version which should have loaded when I updated via the App? By the way, the update went very smooth with no issues. How do I find the Google driver you mentioned? I didn't see anything about that on the ZWO "Software and Firmware" page.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on this. Hopefully one of us will make a breakthrough.

jayair

I have tried the USB hub method and it never changes from 'Not Found'. I have tried different power supplies (12V/5A and 12V/10A) and nothing changes. My guide camera (120MM Mini) and main camera (294MC) connect via usb and work perfectly fine. I can connect my mount to PC via USB and control it with Stellarium. I always star align before connecting AAP to HC.

This is incredibly disappointing to say the least. Given my HC/Mount works perfectly fine with other software its clear to me the problem lies with AAP.

w7ay

jayair I have tried the USB hub method and it never changes from 'Not Found'.

Wow, that is not good. Be sure to disconnect every other devices from the USB port when you test it.

On my ASIAIR (ver 2), just by connecting a USB Hub (with nothing connected through the hub, no mount, no nothing) to the ASIAIR USB 3 port (the one with the baby blue plastic insert), my Telescope Setup changed from "Not found" to "Not connected" (after relaunching the ASIAIR app in my iPad).

If you can't even get this step to work (i.e., finally seeing "Not Connected" with a hub by itself), then connecting a mount to the hub will not do anything either.

I assume that you have also already tried connecting the mount to the USB 2 port of the ASIAIR, right? Thats the two USB connectors on the Raspberry Pi that has black plastic inserts.

You have tried reverting the firmware to the original microSD card image, right? In case some USB driver in Raspbian failed to load from you current microSD card. You can find the original firmware image that ZWO published to a Google Drive. It takes a while to download since it is not a small file; but might be worth trying. And you then have to relicense the firmware for your ASIAIR serial number -- you can check ZWO's documentation for how to proceed with that (involves taking an image of a QR code that show up on the display).

Chen

jayair

w7ay I've tried switching ports (USB3/2) and still 'Not Found' with nothing else plugged in. Even with nothing plugged in at all it never says 'Not Connected'. As a matter of fact I've never seen it say 'Not Connected' no matter what setup I have. I've also tried reverting the firmware using a different SD card too and went through the relicense process.

I'll state again that my 2 cameras work fine plugged in to the USB ports if that makes a difference.

jayair

StarBrowser I connect with 'Stellarium, via serial port' option. When I choose INDI it asks for a TCP port number (not sure what that would even be) but no device shows up.

mj972

OK, just finished a bunch of tests: went out and bought two unpowered USB 2.0 hubs. Connected both of them to my computer first, and used each one to connect to my mount (BTW @w7ay - the documentation regarding the power USB port on the mount is irrelevant, as this port isn't used for controlling the mount - control is done via a Hand Controller connected to an RJ AUX port, and then connecting a mini USB cable to the hand controller). KStars managed to control the mount without any problem.

Moving on to the AAP, no such luck - No matter which usb port I try, and which hub I connect to it, like @jayair I have not been able to change the status from Serial: Not Found to Serial: Not connected. I also changed my power source from 12V 2A to 12V 5A to no effect.

Tomorrow I'm bringing my mount an AAP to a person who also has an AAP, to see whether his unit connects to my mount, and whether my unit connects to his mount. I'll update afterwards.

Currently, I'm back to one of two options - I received a faulty unit or the current version of AAP doesn't know how to connect to the current version of the Evolution Mount. I hope it is the first, because that can be easily solved by @tech@zwo sending me a replacement under warranty. I'll let you know when I know more.

w7ay

mj972 No matter which usb port I try, and which hub I connect to it, like @jayair I have not been able to change the status from Serial: Not Found to Serial: Not connected.

Did you try selecting a different mount (for example, RainbowAstro)to see if Serial info changes to Not Connected? Try with the mount connected to hub and mount not connected to hub.

If it does change to Not Connected, it is something in ASIAIR that is mount related.

If it still does not, something may be wrong with the Raspbian USB driver. And I recommend starting with a fresh copy of the firmware (from that Google drive), and updated to the latest firmware by the ASIAIR v1.6.2 app.

You would think that there must be someone with the same mount that has connected successfully.

Chen

StarBrowser

Chen, I have tried different mounts (RainbowAstro, among others) with only the unpowered USB hub connected to the USB 3 port (not other connection to AAP other than power) and again on a USB 2 port. This is with a 12v 3A supply which should be sufficient. Never get the "Not Connected". It sounds like jayair has tried the fresh firmware copy.

I agree that I would expect someone out there has connected successfully. I just haven't found one on this forum or CloudyNights.

mj972

StarBrowser I already tried a fresh copy, and it failed too. I tried asking in the AAP group on Facebook, and received one reply from a person saying it is working for him, but since the reply was simply “yes”, I was unable to confirm his firmware versions…

So this is looking more like a software issue for the AAP then a problematic unit… 🤦🏻

do you know if there’s a way of preventing AAP to upgrade to latest version after I do a fresh install? Maybe that way I’ll be able to try and connect it.

w7ay

mj972 do you know if there’s a way of preventing AAP to upgrade to latest version after I do a fresh install?

On Android, you can run an old APK of the ASIAIR app (unless you have deleted them, the old versions should still be in the file system).

You will need also to use a firmware that is at least as old as the ASIAIR app. The app will have problems if it is older than the firmware that is matched to it. The app has no problem with older firmware, since it will just overwrite the firmware from the app itself. Just duplicate a microSD from the original archive that you made.

Lacking an original microSD copy, you can download the original firmware from the Google server; and go through the QR code gyrations to get that copy licensed for your particular ASIAIR. Please be aware that there are two different firmware, for the original ASIAIR and the second version of the ASIAIR. Be sure to download the correct one.

If you are on iOS, you will not be able to revert to an older version of the app, and thus also not revert to an older firmware.

Wow, I just repeated the experiment with a hub, and this time, with an empty hub connected, I am now getting Not Found instead of Not Connected!

In fact, try as I might, I can only get it to go between Not Found and Connected. I can't even make Not Connected show up. Same ASIAIR, same Hub, same software and firmware version.

The Not Found is definitely a bogus message, since I can connect the mount using that slide switch on the right, while the status says Not Found and thereby changing the state directly to Connected.

So, what you guys are saying is that you cannot connect using Celestron NexStar GPS/SLT/SE, even if you ignore the Not Found message, right? (also after a star alignment) There is an icon of a question mark embedded in a white circle at the right of the Telescope menu after you select Celestron NexStar GPS/SLT/SE. Follow each step religiously (while ignoring the Not Found state) to see if you can connect. Again, ignore the Not Found, since that appears to be a bogus red herring message.

Chen

mj972

w7ay yes Chen, that is the case. Also, I just completed another elimination test: I have another raspberry pi at home (pi4), and have just installed INDI and KStars on it. It connects to the mount beautifully, with my regular cable without any hubs. Meaning - I don’t think the problem is with back-current flowing from the handset to the pi (although the power requirements are totally different - the pi4 uses a 5V/3A power supply).

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