Strange times for asiair: Page 2

Strange times for asiair

Maritime

When I was a boy many years ago, we walked barefoot, in the snow and rain, to school, and it was uphill both ways, with biting dogs and shotgun toting maniacs, but we loved it. I wish I could go back….

darkmatter

Maritime Oh stop complaining. I had to do that to go to school, and then also in the weekends so I could work in the coal mines 25 hours per day... 😆

sonofstan The Asiair is indeed a very useful tool but I think ZWO has lost sight of the tools intended purpose. A better approach might be to have an Asiair V2 strictly aimed at people just starting out. No fancy functions like mosaics, multi-target sequences etc. but only the basics, and above all it needs to be ROBUST. Maybe the results won't be absolutely top-notch but it's more important that you GET results - every time, all the time. And then also have an Asiair Pro which, as the name implies, is intended for more advanced users who'll be able to troubleshoot if the software decides to misbehave. In Dutch there's a saying that roughly translates as "trust comes on foot but leaves on horseback", meaning that it's easier to lose someones trust than to regain it. Right now there's an alarming number people reporting issues with ZWO equipment, most noticeably the ASI 2600 and Asiair, and trust is saddling up its horse... Time for ZWO to stop adding things to the roof and start fixing the house foundation before it all collapses.

galactique

darkmatter Time for ZWO to stop adding things to the roof and start fixing the house foundation before it all collapses.

Well, I am neither experienced nor patient in this field, so my strategy is to never allow auto-updates, never be an early adopter by choice and to always make sure that patient and experienced folk shake down s/ware first (looking at Chen here).

Late follower is the place to be for me.

I appreciate that the AAP project is still in development and I can accept that. But this can induce shooting problems which I cannot even identity, mainly due due to lack of definitive documentation. Often someone here will usually can say 'Did you try this ?' to get me back on the right track. I have to say that without advice from this forum I would probably be lost and out of patience.

So, for $300 I am satisfied.

Maritime

Sniff, it’s so lonely in the woodshed.

Byrdsfan1948

galactique "So, for $300 I am satisfied."

galactique I have just been reading the occasional additional comments to this thread without further comments of my own. Mostly because I don't want to sound overly negative. However you raise a couple interesting thoughts here .
First, I too prefer not to update my FW as soon as it comes out. I'd rather let others, with far more skill, and knowledge than I have ( I too am looking at experts like Chen ) do the troubleshooting. However often the updates contain "fixes" for problems introduced in previous updates so I then just bite the bullet, and cross my fingers. To be perfectly fair I must admit that for my specific set up, the last update seemed to go well for me, and even clear up a very nagging problem I was having in PLAN Mode. Here's hoping I have not jinxed myself.
For $300 I too would say I am satisfied, if were not for the fact that how this $300 product preforms each night has a direct impact on how our thousands of dollars of other equipment preforms. Not to mention it's overall impact on the very few clear nights so many of us get.
I totally agree with Darkmatter. I too would much rather that ZWO, STOP! STOP!! STOP!!! adding any more new features, and totally focus at least for the foreseeable future on making sure that all the current features work as expected.
In addition as you say, we also need far better definitive documentation. Personally forums like this one and on Facebook have been a great help for me in every phase of this very complex hobby. However I must say I have seen at least as many confusing, as well as incorrect suggestions, no matter how well intended as correct ones.
As you say for $300 I'm satisfied. But that can be a very fleeting feeling at times. Al

w7ay

Byrdsfan1948 I too would much rather that ZWO, STOP! STOP!! STOP!!! adding any more new features, and totally focus at least for the foreseeable future on making sure that all the current features work as expected.

Unfortunately, ZWO caters to, and makes money from, the millennials that want a new "look, shiny" feature every new app release, whether they need it or not. Case in point -- the planetarium in v1.9 beta.

Experienced (and especially, lazy) astronomy hobbyists are just a small fraction of the people who use the ASIAIR.

The money does not come from the $300. A company in the Silicon Valley would go bankrupt supporting even a single experienced engineer by selling small volume $300 products. The ASIAIR is a loss leader that locks you in. The only reason they even fix bugs is so they can sell you more other trinkets. They have already taken your $300.

Their plan is to get you locked into buying other ZWO devices in the future. I am sure the millennials are chomping at the bit to hand over money for the AM5, even it no one but the shills have "reviewed" it. The profit (not just revenue) from the AM5 or a ASI6200 makes it worth their while to continue with the ASIAIR project. Heck, they probably make decent money by rebranding some 12V brick, and the millennials will buy them up without checking that Amazon has better supplies for a lower price.

If not for selling you the other stuff, ZWO would have put ASIAIR firmware on a subscription model in a New York minute. The fact that they have not (yet) done that is because they don't need money from the ASIAIR itself, and they are using other revenue to support (or not support, depending on your perspectives) the ASIAIR.

The "look, shiny" effect is real. Just look at the idiots that bought the Radian Raptor. Some people pay more money for better technical specs, some pay more money for a different color of paint. Speaking of which, this YouTube video is hilarious; it reflects what the rest of us think about the Raptor :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu34NGd_k10

Chen

Byrdsfan1948

w7ay Hey Chen, Yep I totally agree with all your saying. Having said that what really amazes me is that if we assume the the ASIAIR is both the fishing line as well as lure for ZWO, I at least would expect that it would be by far the most robust product in their entire line. Speaking only for myself it has been a two edged sword. I appreciate how it made my way into this hobby much easier than it might have been otherwise. But then on the other hand for some of us, ( me included ) it is sort of like using a small computer to solve Calculus problems without me the user, having a basic understanding of Algebra, Geometry and Trig. Personally I appreciate that I was able to skip those steps to get started, but I now better understand that there is still a need to go back and take the time and make the effort to learn those courses if I am ever going to become as proficient as I would like to be .

Again personally, perhaps because of my business background, the various issues we have seen with the Pro and Plus as well as some issues with some other of their products have caused me to put a full stop on further investments with ZWO. I stress full stop, NOT I've jumped ship......... BUT I most certainly will be testing the waters elsewhere in the near future.

If I were to guess I would assume that the ASIAIR Pro and Plus are the very face of this company. To put it another way, essentially they play a huge role in Corporate Image. As galactique so well says: for $300 I'm satisfied. But $300 does not go very far in this hobby.....

HAHA yes that video is very funny. I have not watched it all yet, but will later. BTW did you see the You Tube videos he and a few other's did about 6 months ago about some crazy game changing filter that was supposed to allow imaging during the day ? :-))) I don't know if they are still on You Tube.

Lastly, if you don't mind could you post an image of the PE graph for your RST -135? I found your post here, about a month ago that shows the PE graph for the ZWO AM5. I agree that keeping up with the first derivative change in velocity (acceleration) is key for guiding. I also agree that AM5 graph looks like it might be a challenge. Almost like at some points guiding might almost need to keep up with the second derivative of velocity, Jerk !! :-)) But I have not been able to find a RST-135 graph to compare it to. You say it's very close to sinusoidal, I'd love to compare them. Hopefully far more so than the AM5 appears to be............ Feel free to e-mail that to me if you wish if you still have my e-mail Thanks Al

klaus

The video is so hilarious and yet so true, still ROFL!

Klaus

Lain402

Have you heard about this ? :

w7ay

Byrdsfan1948 Personally I appreciate that I was able to skip those steps to get started, but I now better understand that there is still a need to go back and take the time and make the effort to learn those courses if I am ever going to become as proficient as I would like to be .

Remember what Euclid told Ptolemy? That there is no Royal road to Geometry -- everyone has to learn geometry the hard way.

I can only paraphrase Euclid by saying there is no such thing as "Simple As 1,2,3." You get stuck at 3 and can go no further.

if you don't mind could you post an image of the PE graph for your RST -135?

I don't have an unguided graph handy (you can find guided graphs that I have posted to this forum), but if you search the Cloudy Night archives, you should be able to find a curve someone else (not RainbowAstro) made and Fourier Transformed to show that except for a small third harmonic term, the other terms are virtually not present.

Chen

Lain402

Byrdsfan1948

Byrdsfan1948 BTW did you see the You Tube videos he and a few other's did about 6 months ago about some crazy game changing filter that was supposed to allow imaging during the day ? :-))) I don't know if they are still on You Tube.

9 months ago and it was obviously an April fool !

https://youtu.be/8QzXeUe1xg8

w7ay

Byrdsfan1948 RST -135

This is a moderately recent, and pretty comprehensive review of the RST-135. Notice that it too mentions the need of large, fast corrections to keep up:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/user/products/large/Supplementary%20Manual%20V16.pdf

I think most people know by now how to tame a strain wave mount. With an encoder, the RST-135E's period error is down to 2.5". Good enough for doing unguided photography with short focal lengths, without the use of any computer (just an intervalometer). But needs good polar alignment, nevertheless.

Chen

w7ay

Lain402 9 months ago and it was obviously an April fool !

Flew too close to the Sun obviously, and got their brains fried.

(Refer to Greek mythology if that is a mystery :-).

By the way, it is easy to see Venus at Noon with unaided eyes. Need good sky transparency, although I have also seen it through thin clouds.

Chen

Byrdsfan1948

Lain402 HAHA THANKS!!! OK Yes I see that now............. But missed it then .....

galactique

Chen,
I cannot speak to the ZWO target audience, but the Youtube video of Trevor Jones wrt Raptor highlights
the potential problem of this new channel to market; that involving paid Youtube Influencers.

Being naturally wary/sceptical/cynical helps me try to sort the wheat from the chaff.

How did it come to this? I watched last the movie about Fessebook/Zuckerberg, script by Aaron Zorkin; nuff said.

w7ay

galactique paid Youtube Influencers

"Paid" is the key word. Follow the money.

That is why I declined the offer from ZWO last year for a free ASIAIR "Plus," and other "gifts" of new hardware from time to time from ZWO. One year, they wanted to send me moon cakes for Chinese New Year.

I also don't want to deal with working through ZWO's bugs. It is one thing helping others when it is cloudy for me, and another thing when I am stuck with untested, flakey equipment when the sky outside is clear.

On top of that, I don't want to deal with "gifts" from a foreign country when it comes time to file my taxes. These shills on YouTube and FaceBook must have good accountants. I already avoid stocks from foreign countries since you need an entire tax form just to deal with their dividends; and those are even legit transactions, and not bribes.

Chen

Swizerlan

w7ay Do you have a youtube channel?

Swizerlan

astrosatch I love asi air so much I wont buy a paramount mx because its tied to bisque proprietary products. This thing changed the way I image, there is no going back.

w7ay

Swizerlan Do you have a youtube channel?

Nope. I just have my own web site (www.w7ay.net) if I have something useful to publish.

Chen

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