Psy1280 Now, it takes more than one minute for an image to load and be displayed!!!

Which phase is slow?

There are three phases before an image appears on the Preview window of an iPad.

The first phase is when the exposure is complete and before the progress bar at the bottom right of the Preview pops up. This is the time ASIAIR is pulling data from the camera's memory into the ASIAIR's own memory.

The second phase is when the progress bar appears and you can see the actual network download. And also reporting the speed in MBytes/sec.

The third phase is when the network activity finally finishes, the progress bar disappears, and the image is being processed by the iPad processor into the view (you can often also see a circular progress wheel appear -- iOS displays that when it takes a long time to refresh the image).

You need to identify which of these three phase is the slow one.

A slow down on the first phase would be a bug in ASIAIR firmware or the camera, or the USB port of the ASIAIR or camera. You could have lost USB 3 connectivity, and the ASIAIR is falling back to using the remaining USB 2 wires in the cable, for example. (All USB 3 cables also come with a USB 2 backwards compatible fallback).

A slowdown on the second phase would be something is wrong with your network.

A slowdown in the third phase would be something wrong with the ASIAIR app in the iPad, or the iPad is running out of RAM, and swapping with storage (a reboot and getting rid of all unused apps would be the cure, or buy an iPad with enough RAM to run all of your apps).

Chen

    I'm not sure my reply earlier today was posted (if so, sorry for the repeat)
    Yes, this is definitely a #2 problem (i.e., green bar taking too long to finish)
    I've just ordered a new Cat 8 Ethernet cable and will try that. (The ASIAIR wifi seems to remedy the problem (at least for now), I want to continue to verify that it's my Ethernet)

    Thank you so much for your explanation/trouble-shooting. I really appreciate the feedback.

    Joe

    • w7ay replied to this.

      Psy1280 I've just ordered a new Cat 8 Ethernet cable and will try that.

      ASIAIR will not be able to take advantage of any cable beyond Cat5e (or Cat6). But it's your money.

      Check the LED lights at the base of the RJ45 connectors at both ends. (Google if you don't know what the Green and Amber lights indicate). Make sure you are currently connected using 1Gb ethernet. If not, the cheap cable had degraded enough that your network fell back to 100 Mbits/s, or worse, have to do multiple retries to succeed. (I see about 600-750 Mbits/second from my network to the ASIAIR.) The ASI6200 needs to transfer about 1000 Megabits of data per frame.

      Chen

        Ongoing thanks Chen,
        One thing I came across was that the setting in the ASIAIR was on 2G, I changed it to 5G. I'm embarrassed if this was the problem from the beginning. Nevertheless, if it weren't for your suggestions, I would have overlooked this. Also, the amber light on the Ethernet is on (I believe this is 1G), while the green light is blinking

        For now things seem to be working...your assistance has been very helpful,
        Joe

        • w7ay replied to this.

          Psy1280 the setting in the ASIAIR was on 2G, I changed it to 5G

          That is the WiFi 2.4 GHz band vs 5 GHz band setting.. Nothing to do with the Ethernet connection.

          If I were you, I would turn off WiFi Station Mode completely. That would make it easier to debug when the cable goes south again. Your ASIAIR probably had a failed Ethernet connection and was trying to push data through its flakey WiFi implementation. By turning Station Mode off, you would know immediately if you have lost Ethernet connection.

          You probably have an intermittent RJ45 connector (or degraded cable, if you are using the cheap flat Ethernet cables), and the ASAIR had switched to WiFI, and thus give the usual abysmal ZWO WiFi connection.

          I use a big fat outdoors-rated round Cat6 cable to get to the my ABS box that is at the base of my tri-pier, which has an ASIAIR in it. If you don't have a fix mounted ASIAIR, you will need to strain relieve your Ethernet cable, since it is just an RJ type connector, and like USB connectors, are not meant for equipment that constantly moves around.

            Thank you again Chen.
            I just ordered a "big fat outdoor Cat6 cable.
            Last night I found that when I switch to the ASIAIR Wifi, the image loading is normal (i.e., 10 seconds).
            Also Station Mode was turned off in both Ethernet and ASIAIR Wifi

            If not the cable, what could cause an Ethernet (that had been working flawlessly) to degrade?

            P.S. At least, with your help, we've narrowed this down to an Ethernet problem

            Joe

            • w7ay replied to this.

              Psy1280 If not the cable, what could cause an Ethernet (that had been working flawlessly) to degrade?

              Occom's Razor says it is flakey ASIAIR hardware.

              Bring the ASIAIR indoors, and using a short Ethernet cable to your router, see what speed you can get from the Samba file transfer. You should be able to get 80 MBytes per second to 90 MB/s. (i.e., around 700 Mbits/second. If you are not getting that, and the router is not the problem, then the ASIAIR is.

              Check to see if the pins in the RJ-45 connector of the ASIAIR are all perfectly lined up. Shine a flashlight into it and look at the row of pins. They should be perfectly lined up line a flat comb of wires. If you are not sure what it should look like, look at other RJ-45 jacks on other equipment (Ethernet switches, routers, computers, etc)

              The RJ-45 are really quite fragile (even though POTS telephones have used the smaller varieties, you don't plug and unplug your POTS phone that often). Just like USB connectors, they are not really meant for constant plugging and replugging. My Ethernet connection is connected "permanently," and I unplug it at most once a year before there is deep snow. I definitely won't trust plugging and unplugging it each night.

              Chen

                Fantastic advice Chen, I shall get to this in the morning (I work evenings). Your suggestions are extremely helpful and appreciated.

                Joe

                SUCCESS! I think I’ve isolated the problem, i.e., A FAULTY OUTDOOR ETHERNET JUNCTION BOX!

                1.) After connecting directly to the router with a short (5’ Ethernet chord), all my readings were in the 11 MB/sec range without any problems (i.e., ~ 10 seconds to load an image)
                2.) I also connected my 50’ Ethernet cable directly to the router and once again all my readings were in the 10.9 – 11.3 MB/sec range (i.e., 10 seconds to load image)
                3.) Prior to the above I connected my short Ethernet cable to my outside Ethernet box (not directly to the router)) and most of the readings were in the 500-700 KB/sec range (i.e., 50 second image load time)
                4.) P.S. Prior to directly connecting to the router (i.e., connected to the faulty outdoor junction box) Seven out of 20 attempts did yield 6 to 10 MB/sec loading (i.e., normal 10 sec image load), but then reverted back to the KB/sec download speed. I suspect this variation highlighted the faulty outside Ethernet box.

                Please Chen, if you can, will you confirm my findings? And of course any other feedback. You've been most helpful. Thank you once again.
                Joe

                • w7ay replied to this.

                  Psy1280 Please Chen, if you can, will you confirm my findings?

                  Something is still wrong. It looks like something in the network is using 100 Mbit/sec Ethernet (12 MBytes/second), instead of 1 Gbit/sec ethernet.

                  As I mentioned earlier, I was getting around 80-90 MBytes/second on a Samba transfer from the ASIAIR. You are only getting 12 MBytes/sec, that seems to indicate some part of the network is using some ancient 100 Mbits/sec equipment.

                  Try this: (1) find a spare gigabit switch, or buy one if you don't have a spare one, they are dirt cheap nowadays,

                  https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A128S24

                  (2) Connect the uplink of the switch of your home network. Many switches today do not distinguish between up and down link ports, and you can use any port -- but as usual, read the manual before using the switch.

                  (3) bring the ASIAIR close to the switch and use a short (at least Cat5e) cable to connect to downlink of the switch.

                  (3) Now connect your computer/laptop to the same switch, and using a short (at least Cat5e) cable.

                  What this does is: although the ASIAIR and computer are on your network, when they talk to each other, they go directly though the switch (the whole idea about an Ethernet switch), and thus also isolates any problem of the rest of your network.

                  (4) connect the computer to the Samba server of the ASIAIR.

                  On macOS, use the Finder's "Go" menu and select Connect to Server. You should be able to find the ASIAIR's IP address from the ASIAIR itself or from your home router. Tell the "Connect to Server" interface to connect to:

                  smb://aaa.bbb.c.ddd

                  where a, b, c, d is the ASIAIR's IP address. The smb indicates you want to access the Samba file server.

                  (5) now launch Activity Monitor.app on macOS, and select the Network pane.

                  (6) try to download a bunch of large files from ASIAIR and you should bee the transfer rate shown in Data Received/sec. It should be above 70 Mbytes/sec. If not, the ASIAIR needs to be replaced, since it is not running anywhere close to 1 Gb/sec.

                  If you now get gigabit type transfer, your home network needs to be checked.

                  Chen

                    Chen,
                    Quick question before I explore what you've suggested. If, in fact, I can get normal 10 second image loading, why would I need to pursue this further. I'm a bit confused as to what would be wrong if things are (seemingly) working. Perhaps, I"m missing something.

                    • w7ay replied to this.

                      Psy1280 I can get normal 10 second image loading, why would I need to pursue this further.

                      Because 10 seconds downloading is not normal for an Ethernet connected ASI6200. It should only take 2 or 3 seconds.

                      Chen

                        I changed the outdoor Ethernet receptacle and I’m getting 2.5 second download time. Seems the problem was the previous receptacle! I appreciate all your help. We’re lucky to have you and these forums when things go awry.

                        Joe

                        4 days later

                        Chen,
                        I spoke too soon. Now I see that I get mostly 50+ second download time with occasional 2 second downloads. I've changed the cable. One other thing is I cannot use Plan mode....just doesn't respond (plus I get a strange box when I try to enter start stop time. See attached photo). I need Plan mode so this may be a deal breaker (is it time to buy a new ASIAIR???). The one thing I haven't tried is to simply use the ASIAIR's wifi. I'll do that in the morning.....if I get the same intermittent downloads, then I guess I have a defective unit. Do you agree?

                        • w7ay replied to this.

                          Remove everything from the ASIAIR except for the camera USB.

                          Do not supply power to the camera from the ASIAIR. Got directly from a power source. Do not use the DC outputs from the ASIAIR.

                          Start from there (i.e., minimum possible to test the ASIAIR and the camera out). You do not need to wait for darjness to do this.

                          If this works, you can then slowly find out what is the offending source.

                          If it still does not work, connect a powered USB hub to the ASIAIR with a cable no longer than 0.5m. The connect the camera to this hub.

                          Check the power to the camera to make sure that loaded voltage remains over 12V, when the camera is cooling. Do not run ZWO's camera cooling over 90%. Check to make sure the power cable is at least 18 AWG. Make sure the power supply is at least capable of supplying 6A if you are powering the cooled camera and the ASIAIR (more if you have other things).

                          Do not use any cable (USB nor power) that is included in ZWO boxes. Those should go immediately into the thrash when you open a box from ZWO, to make sure you will not be tempted to use them ever. We know that their flat USB cable is junk, but I recently found out that even their power cable is thrash:

                          https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.com/d/16270-asiair-power-cables

                          Chen

                            Thanks so much, I"ll do as you say in the morning. I should mention, I have no problem imaging throughout the night...(in Auto mode, not Plan). Everything works....it's just the weird download time and Plan Mode issue. I'll get back, and once again....thanks for sticking with me on this.

                            Joe

                            • w7ay replied to this.

                              Psy1280 thanks for sticking with me on this.

                              Next time, if you need my attention, could you please add @w7ay to your post? I don't followevery thread, but happen to come across your reply this time That flag would alert me.

                              On the other hand, ZWO should be looking at every post, but they seem to be ignoring posts like yours that indicates basic and possibly unfixable problems with their products.

                              Chen

                                  w7ay Chen, This morning I disconnected the Ethernet and ran the ASIAIR on it’s Wifi. So far, everything loads in 1 - 2 seconds! I’m not sure what this tell me and I’m not sure it will remain stable. Here’s what I’ve concluded:

                                  1.) Is the problem the Ethernet? (Last night I tried a new Cat6 cable and also the old Cat6 cable—still 1 minute download) Last week I tried connecting a short Ethernet cable directly to the router and had no problems with the loading (i.e., 2 seconds). Therefore, I assumed the problem had to do with the cable from the router to the outside box (I replaced the receptacle in the box). All the “teeth” in the Ethernet connections are straight and unbent. Note: Quite often I’ve been able to start out with a 2 second download but then, a few a period of time it reverts back to the 1 minute download. Also, I’m using a ‘nest’ Wifi in my home and the signal is strong.
                                  2.) If everything works with the ASIAIR’s Wifi, doesn’t that suggest that all of the ZWO cable are, in fact, working properly?
                                  3.) One thing I’ve learned is that just because the device “seems” to be loading properly, in time, it reverts back to the 1 minute load time. However, I have to verify this while only using the AIR’s Wifi.

                                  What conclusions can you draw from any of this???

                                  Thank you,
                                  Joe

                                  • w7ay replied to this.

                                      Psy1280 If everything works with the ASIAIR’s Wifi, doesn’t that suggest that all of the ZWO cable are, in fact, working properly?

                                      Hi Joe, the problem with WiFi is that it depends on your RF environment. If for some reason, the WiFi antenna's directivity favors a neighbor's WiFi signal, the ASIAIR may lose connection (or degrades badly). I.e., the problem is worse for people who mount their ASIAIR on the OTA, which moves through the night -- so the antenna can point to different neighbors through the night.

                                      The reson for Ethernet is not really because of speed (the difference is not significant), but because of reliability. But it seems that Ethernet is unreliable for you.

                                      However, if the Ethernet fails, even occasionally, especially with a short cable, there is something wrong with the ASIAIR or your router.

                                      Do you have a Gigabit Ethernet switch that you can use this way:

                                      1) connect ASIAIR to switch
                                      2) connect your laptop to the switch
                                      3) connect the switch to the router.

                                      This will ensure that any packets between the ASIAIR and the laptop will not go through the router (that's what the switch does). If it works fine, then your router is the problem. If it still fall back to a minute download, then the problem is the ASIAIR.

                                      The one minute latency with a ASI6200 is so suspiciously like the network is falling back to 100 Mbits/sec Ethernet. That would make 2.4 GHz WiFi much faster when WiFi works (tops out at perhaps 450 Mbits/sec). FWIW, I have four versions of the ASIAIR, and I don't remember seeing any of them fall back to 100 Mbits/sec.

                                      Chen