Mount Disconnects during Guiding with OAG, AVX Mount

Tech@ZWO

I passed to our devs to check your log, i will get back to you if there is any news, thank you for your feedback.

SFj9LuNr

Is this just an ASIAir Plus 256g issues. 32g users don't seem affected.
Seems only to happen when guiding and imaging the same time. The length of exposure makes no difference or whether you are saving the images.
I've taken an hours worth of imaging without guiding and no Mount Disconnected errors.

Thanks

Tech@ZWO

SFj9LuNr If so, it looks like a problem with power, can you power your rig via mains supply and try again?

Hara

You don't describe your rigs setup very well. Could this be an power issue again? What source your mount get power? Does it have its own power source, or is it connected into ASIAIR? If latter, we have obviously found reason for your problems.

Corsair

Here's the thread about the Public Beta which has information and links to iOS and Android versions. https://bbs.astronomy-imaging-camera.com/d/17089-asiair-v212-public-beta-released

That would be the best place to ask questions in regards to the Beta.

Here's the iOS link for the Beta: https://testflight.apple.com/join/6uEyoSl3

Tech@ZWO Any update on this issue at all now with the further information provided above by SFj9LuNr

SFj9LuNr

I'm using a Bluetti EB3. Its a 270W lithium phosphate portable power station. The 12v section of the Bluetti is 12v 10amps. I have the mount connected via the cigarette lighter adapter and the ASIAir connected to one of the 5.5x2.1 ports so the two are sharing the 12v 10amps. The ASIAir is rated 12v 5amps. The AVX is 12v 3.5amp.

Before I started using the guiding I didn't experience this issue. I've imaged for an hour multiple evenings without the guide camera and without the mount disconnecting using the Bluetti. I don't have an AC adapter.

So the theory is adding the guide camera to the ASIAir is causing a extra power requirement for the Bluetti power station? I'm not running anything off the power ports on the ASIAir. User load those power ports with dew heaters etc. Wouldn't that be more problematic for the ASIAir?

I have a NOCO GB150 lithium car starter (it can start any diesel engine) that I can connect to the AVX mount. I'll try it next session. Stranger things have happened.

SFj9LuNr

I just rechecked the Bluetti specs and each 5.5x2.1 port will handle up to 10 amps. Plenty of power for the ASIAir. Only have the camera and guide camera connected, no dew heaters, not the mount.

Last night used my Nikon D5100 while guiding with the ASI174MM. The camera supplies its own power unlike the ASI585MC which gets power from the ASIAir.

When I manual slew after PA using the controls in Preview when using the DEC controls to move to the northeast when lifting my finger off the icon, the mount kept slewing for another 5 seconds. Shortly after, a mount disconnect. I wasn't guiding just manually slewing the mount.

Corsair

Sorry to make you repeat yourself:

What build of the Beta are you running? It does get updated since it is a Beta so it is important - if you're running the Beta - that you do these updates. https://www.pgyer.com/air_beta_android (scroll down the page to see the build release history).

Also note - since its a Beta - there will be bugs.

Personally I would recommend rolling back to the non-beta version of the ASIAIR App & Firmware while this issue is being diagnosed.

You have the AVX Mount connected to your ASIAIR Plus 256GB using a USB cable from the Hand Controller. Is it a USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 cable? Are you running it to the USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 port on the ASIAIR?

I'm assuming your hand controller has a mini USB port on the bottom hence when you have a mini USB to USB A cable.

Would model hand controller are you running and what firmware is the hand controller running? You should be able to bring this up on the hand controller itself and take a photo of it.

What's your set up procedure/workflow with your AVX Mount to get it to work with your ASIAIR? I have seen various workflows for AVX users to get their mounts working with the ASIAIR so I'm curious what you do when setting everything up and connecting everything from scratch.

SFj9LuNr

I'm running 2.1.2 10.94. I have an iPad. I remember after starting the Beta the ASIAir App updated automatically one day when I opened it. It's been awhile now since this last update. The reason I moved to the beta was to see if another problem I'm encountered might have been fixed. I hadn't. That problem is with the mount controls in Preview, Video and Focus have response issues. Most common in the DEC direction the mount will continue slewing for another 5 to 8 seconds after you lift your finger off the icon. Sometimes I'll see it in the RA. Usually when I've encountered these slewing issues I might see a mount disconnected error. I believe that problem has to do something with the this problem because when I'm not guiding I don't see mount disconnect errors.
The link above is for Android. I'm using an iPad.

What is the procedure to roll back? I know the mount directions don't work any better and I was getting occasional mount disconnects on V2.1.1 10.74

When I use my ASI585MC its connected to the ASIAir via USB 3 with the supplied red USB cable. When I use my Nikon D5100 I connect the camera via USB 2 to the ASIAir. Since I have the second USB 2 cable going to the hand controller I have the ASI174MM Mini connected to a USB 3 port on the ASIAir. I've seen mount disconnects on both cameras. My Nexstar hand controller has the mini USB so I use a 6 foot USB A cable

My Nexstar hand controller firmware is the latest at Celestron. See photo below.

My workflow is this
I polar align with the polar scope
Center the mount on the index marks.
3 USB cable from ASIAir is not connected to Hand Controller
Turn on the mount. I use a Bluetti EB3 lithium power station. 12v male cigarette cord to the AVX connection
Verify time date, lat/long. I use Standard time even if its DST. Perform Quick Alignment
Power up ASIAir. I run a 5.5x2.1 power cord from the ASIAir to a 5.5x2.1 port on the EB3. The cables that came with the ASIAir.
Connect my iPad Wifi to the ASIAir. Check camera, guide camera are recoginzed. Mount is still not connected.
Connect the USB cable to the bottom of the Hand Controller.
Go to the Mount section in ASIAir App. Enable the AVX mount. Verify the time, date, lat/long is the same as the Hand Controller
In Preview take an image and manually focus. I find it easier than using ASIAir App Focus section. Once focus is achieved then manually plate solve to test for Polar Alignment procedure.
Perform ASIAir Polar Alignment. I usually get within 0° 0' xx" total error. Lately, I'm under 0° 0° 10"
Use the AIRAir App Mount return to Home command to move the mount back from the 60° deflection used in ASIAir PA. AVX is returned to the index marks.
Before trying Go To, these nexts steps insure Go To is accurate. Slew away from the NCP to a random part of the sky. I usually slew to the northwest. Take an image in Preview. Perform plate solve. Sync the mount from the dialog box that appears.
Slew to a random part of the northeast sky. Plate solve and sync the mount.
Ready to Go To your preferred target. I usually choose a close star to fine tune focus with a Bahtinov mask.

Since using those instructions the Go To has been reliable. I've tested my ASI585MC and Nikon D5100 in F/10 and F/6.3. No plate solving issues and centering works.

I was asked to use a separate power supply to power the mount. I have the ASIAir on the Bluetti and the AVX mount is on a NOCO lithium battery jumper that has a female cigarette adapter.

After the procedure above I targeted the Horsehead nebula and set up guiding and Live stacking of 120 second exposure for 1 hour. Within that sequence I received two mount disconnect errors. I noticed when I went out to take a photo of the hand controller below "Advanced VX" there is a "Q". Is that something to do with the disconnect?

I reconnected the mount in ASIAir after the last mount disconnect error in the mount section. Went to the Preview window.
Then I disconnect the cable from the bottom of the handset. No mount disconnected error appears.
If I go to the Mount section, nothing is displayed, completely blank.
If I connect the cable then go to the Mount section then all the information is displayed and the mount shows enabled.
So where does the Mount Disconnect error come from; ASiAir App or from the AVX?

I believe the issue may be with the 256g version. New hardware architecture vs the 32g.

Tech@ZWO

Corsair We still want the customer test with mains supply and different power cables, USB cables to rule out the power issues first.
Especially do not use too long cables, which may cause voltage drop.

SFj9LuNr

I've tried a separate DC power supply to the mount. The ASIAir is powered by a Bluetti EB3 lithium power station. D5100 has its own battery. ASIAir powers a ASI174MM guide camera. Still got mount disconnected running a Live stack for an hour. Got two disconnects within that time frame.

Someone tell me which brand of USB mini cable and 5.5x2.1 cable to try. I'm current using an Amazon Basics 6ft USB Mini. The 5.5x2.1 are two cables that you join together to get 6ft that come with the ASIAir.

Is WIFI causing this error? Tonight I tried station mode. Still got the error. Seems like the only think affected is the connection to the mount.

Someone at ZWO should be able to find in the software where all the calls are made to generate this error. Give me something more than swapping a power cable. Give me a list of scenarios that cause the software to display this error.

Hara

SFj9LuNr

Have you actually measured how much this Bluetti actually feeds in the end of its cable? using multimeter? repeating the name of your power source doesn't ensure anybody that it really gives what it should. I believe it is good and reputable device and manufacturer (never heard about it really), but....

SFj9LuNr

Bluetti is like a Jackery. It is one of the more mainstream lithium power stations with the newer lithium phosphate batteries (more charging cycles). I just tested the 5.5x2.1 jack and at the jack it measures 13.38v and using ZWO's own two piece cables, one has two male the other female and male so you can extend it to 6ft, that comes with the ASIAir it measures 13.38v. The power station is at 49%. I don't need dew heaters, I'm currently in the Arizona desert. I have nothing connected to the 12v output ports on the ASIAir.

I use this cable because I purchased another 5.5x2.1 from an astro online retailer that was 6ft and lighter weight but found the connection wasn't as tight, there was a little play when you bumped it. It caused the ASIAir to power cycle the first time I used it. The scope would slew and I would be inside and notice the interruption. That was about a month ago.

To buy a new 5.5x2.1 cable, what choice do I have? They are all made in China whether you buy from Amazon or an astro online retailer. You don't know what quality you are getting. The ones supplied by ZWO are a higher (thicker) guage, 16gauge. Most of the ones on Amazon if they even mention it are 22g (thinner). Trying to find heavier 5.5x2.1 cable on Amazon is challenging.

I don'y really want to try a AC power converter either. The Bluetti has an inverter. But then I'm converting DC to AC then AC back to DC. More power drain on the batteries in the Bluetti

Thanks for trying to help.

SFj9LuNr

Last night I got the most mount disconnection errors. This time I got them even when trying to calibrate the guiding.

I live in a motorhome and travel full time. Every couple of weeks or every month we move. So I'm setting up my astro rig every night from scratch. In our current new location (arrived yesterday), due to trees, I had to set up further away than the last place we were located, when I opened this thread. I estimated I'm probably 50ft to 60ft away from where I sit inside the motorhome at the dinette table. The rig was at the back of the motorhome The previous location I estimate I was thirty feet away and was located outside the dinette window. If I'm sitting next the telescope I don't remember getting the disconnects. I come inside once the image sequence starts to get out of the cold. If I have to sit outside the whole time I might as well have a direct connection to the equipment. But I don't have a Windows laptop. That was the appeal of the ASIAir.

I might be able to get the rig closer but then I would have to try ASiAir's All Sky Polar Alignment. I may try that tonight. I've got a clear shot at southeast and southern sky.

When I get the mount disconnect error, nothing else seems affected except guiding. If you are in the middle of imagine taking either Outrun or Live, ASiAir doesn't halt those features. If this problem is due to Wifi reception I don't see a Wifi reception error generated by the ASIAIr App. On occasion in previous sessions I have seen a "reconnecting" when moving around inside so I usually just leave the iPad on the table close to the window.

I have read the ASIAir Pro, which didn't have an antenna, the Wifi was terrible. Not sure why ZWO let that model out their doors. That should've been a priority one bug. What is the specification for the ASIAir Plus 256? How many feet?
I figure if the ASIAir App itself is not reporting reconnections then why should the mount disconnect?

However, I never had mount disconnects when imaging without guiding. AVX tracking and short <20 sec images, I ran those at one hour in Live. With guiding there is constant interaction with the mount. When slewing with the ASIAIR App. I've never seen a mount disconnection error when the mount is slew to a Go To target, whether inside or outside.

I'm going to research 3rd party antennas to see if that my help.

I have a shorter USB mini cable, 3ft. I'll see if that changes anything. I doubt it will.

I tried station mode last night. I have Starlink and the router supports 2.4 also so I had set it up a few weeks ago. I have the ASIAir set up to join the 2.4 network automatically. ASIAir is on 2.4. I set my iPad to the 2.4 network, i.e. I don't select the ASIAir like I do when its running in normal Wifi at 5g. I select my 2.4 network on the iPad. Open the the ASIAir App and I'm in. I still got mount disconnect issues.

I've tried pulling the cable from the hand controller to see if it generates a mount disconnect. It doesn't. From Preview all the mount icon at the top is still showing enabled. You select it, the half page is blank. Back to Preview. Connect the cable. Select the mount icon at the top. All the mount parameters are shown. The mount is slide is green. The ASiAir has no clue if the cable is disconnected.

I tried this last night before packing up. Start slewing the scope in RA or DEC and hold down for a long slew. Disconnect the cable. The slewing continues and doesn't stop. You have to press the handset direction RA if its slewing that way or DEC if its slewing that way, otherwise you will hit limits or worse case the tripod.

I just wish ZWO engineer would list all the conditions that cause that error message to appear then I could check off the list one by one.

Plan B is to buy a miniPC and load it with CPWI, SharpCap, PHD2 then NINA. I'll have to make sure about the wifi range on the miniPC.

Thanks for any help.

SFj9LuNr

Set up tonight using station mode on 2.4 network. Sat next the mount. I used All Sky Polar Alignment. Go To worked well. I noticed I didn't have any slew response problems using he direction keys on the ASIAir App. Started guiding and took a 120sec image. It finished. Took a 180sec image. It almost completed then mount disconnected. I sent the logs into ZWO referencing Bug Report 0003494. Set up guiding again and started a Live stack of 120 seconds. Got trough a few images then the mount disconnect error. I sent the logs to ZWO referencing the same Bug report.

They have two examples of my mount disconnects. Has anyone seen one of these logs?

I would like to roll back to the 2.1.1 10.74 but every time I reset the firmware it just reloads the beta 2.1.2 10.94. I tried downloading he app from the Apple App store but it gives an error that states the firmware doesn't match.

What is the procedure?

I'm pretty much at a standstill.

I'm think Plan B now, miniPC/NINA route. If ZWO comes out with a new update I'll revisit.

Thanks

Tech@ZWO

SFj9LuNr Can you please try mains supply to rule out the problem first?
Because from your discription, the problem only appears when guide camera and main camera exp at the same time, it really sounds like a power issues, maybe the power supply, power cable .etc. thanks.

SFj9LuNr

By mains meaning an AC to DC adapter? I don't have one. What happens if I'm away from AC power and need to run it off battery? I've supplied logs for Bug 0003494. Can you tell me what the log is showing? Does it show a low voltage reading the causes the mount to disconnect. Why does it cause the mount to disconnect and not one of the cameras.
Before I invest in a power adapter I need a ZWO engineer to tell me what the logs are showing. Thank you.

SFj9LuNr

Purchased a Starlink ethernet adapter and 50 ft ethernet cable. Installed the latest beta 2.1.2 10.94. Connected via ethernet to my ASIAir Plus 256. Set up on AVX mount, polar aligned then slewed near the celestial meridian to start a guide calibration. Started the calibration and shortly after received a mount disconnect error message. Uploaded logs and comments.

I've purchased a miniPC and installed NINA as a backup. Still will use the ASIAir if ZWO fixes the mount disconnect error with the AVX.

Maybe I should request a refund and get the 32g model. Seems I'm the only one having mount disconnect errors. Maybe I have a bad copy.

Tech@ZWO

SFj9LuNr Our devs have contacted Celestron, need them to work with us to identify and solve problems. have not get response yet, i will tell you if there is any updates.
Thank you for your time and test.

Tech@ZWO

SFj9LuNr Celestron released a new firmware for AVX, HC:GEM 5.35.3175.
There is a user who reported that it solved the connection problem on ASIAIR, could you upgrade the firmware and test again? thank you.