Version 1.7 Dec swings: Page 2

Version 1.7 Dec swings

astrosatch

Well, yesterday I had session with my mount and was testing different tweaks to improve guiding. Aggressiveness didn't make much difference. Increasing exposure from 1 sec to 2 sec made things a bit better. But underlying problem persisted.
There was another strange thing that happened. When I changed target on same side of meridian, guiding was going haywire. I immediately knew what happened. Guiding was flipped. Why asiair flipped guiding direction despite no meridian was crossed? Beats me. Something must be wrong with latest version of asiair. There are many posts about problems with new version on FB and on this forum. I hope ZWO reads this. I think this might be because there are 3 different models now with same software. ZWO probably optimised code for new asiair plus and that is making problems on other models. Maybe. Most people don't have any problem. But there are problems nevertheless. I hope they soon release bug fix version.

w7ay

astrosatch I immediately knew what happened. Guiding was flipped.

Flipped guiding does not cause oscillations. They cause run-away conditions (correction sign is wrong).

Chen

astrosatch

w7ay Flipped guiding does not cause oscillations. They cause run-away conditions (correction sign is wrong).

Chen

True. But that wasn't the issue I started with in this post. Just another misbehavior that asiair did. And this evening it did exactly the same thing. At this moment I can't leave equipment alone for any automatic slewing or MF. In 1.5 years I have had asiair pro so far I experienced everything from working functions to removing them, changing features, making it more simple and loosing control at the same time. I miss more involvement in this damn thing. In the past I sugested to ZWO some features/improvement that I necessary need for successful automated imaging. Still waiting for them. In the mean time constant struggle with unfinished product. For many issues I found my own solutions and workarounds. I like asiair pro. It is great tool. I just want to sleep in peace while it's doing its business.😉

w7ay

astrosatch But that wasn't the issue I started with in this post.

I thought you mentioned "periodic swings?" Perhaps you mean random swings? "Periodic" in the engineering world implies an oscillation (i.e., something with a period).

Anyhow, it is odd that the correction signs were switching without a pier switch.

Try recalibrating and see if the problem goes away. If so, ask ASIAIR to always recalibrate after a meridian flip.

FWIW, I do not use auto meridian flip. I always control the telescope myself -- part of the charm of a technical hobby is to be involved with the technical aspects, instead of letting the telescope take "selfies" by itself. I avoid anything in ASIAIR that has the word "auto" in it. Even when they work, they are suboptimal (e.g., auto centering never centers sufficiently, auto focusing that does not focus critically, etc). Good enough for the selfie crowd, but insufficient for serious hobbyists.

Chen

Byrdsfan1948

astrosatch Not in any way trying to hijack your thread here, but last night I experienced yet another problem with my ASIAIR PRO that seems to lend credence to your very reasonable thought that there indeed is something very wrong in this latest ASIAIR FW update.
In my case I had actually been enjoying a few nights of the PRO working perfectly. Several flawless MF's, and no significant guiding guiding issues. Last night however out of nowhere from the start something was very wrong. In my case it was my guiding RA becoming totally out of control. To the point that the RA error was so dramatic that it made guiding completely useless. My normal fix when guiding goes crazy is first to check all my settings, and if nothing is amiss, clear the current calibration info and then re-calibrate. When I tried doing that last night, after I cleared the current data, no matter what I tried, I was unable to get the re-calibration process to even start again. Instead of re calibrating all that would happen was the looping to start, but instead of the normal re calibrating steps process beginning, it would go directly to guiding......... Which then of course just promptly lead back to the RA out of control problem. I have successfully done the re calibrating process hundreds of times so obviously I know how it's done, and what to watch for. Last night however as I said I was unable to even get it started. Of course I tried shutting everything down, and re starting, changing settings etc. I even as a last resort deleted the ASIAIR App and reinstalled it. Nothing worked. So as it stands right I can't even guide at all. This is a totally new problem that I have never seen before. If I can I will try to revert back to the previous update to see it that solves this latest problem. The ASIAIR is a great product when it works as it is supposed to work....... But honestly each night seems like that is at best a 50/50 chance. There are just so many on going problems with it that I'm seriously starting to consider more reliable alternatives. If there are any :-) Al

astrosatch

w7ay I thought you mentioned "periodic swings?" Perhaps you mean random swings? "Periodic" in the engineering world implies an oscillation (i.e., something with a period).

Anyhow, it is odd that the correction signs were switching without a pier switch.

Try recalibrating and see if the problem goes away. If so, ask ASIAIR to always recalibrate after a meridian flip.

FWIW, I do not use auto meridian flip. I always control the telescope myself -- part of the charm of a technical hobby is to be involved with the technical aspects, instead of letting the telescope take "selfies" by itself. I avoid anything in ASIAIR that has the word "auto" in it. Even when they work, they are suboptimal (e.g., auto centering never centers sufficiently, auto focusing that does not focus critically, etc). Good enough for the selfie crowd, but insufficient for serious hobbyists.

Entirely agree with everything. One should not let asiair do all by itself without supervision. I am used to it from my early years of astrophotography. Much more work for worse images than these days.😆 I have gotten lazy. But why not. Apparently I can optimise my time with modern technology. If it works of course. There is still a long way ahead of ZWO to make asiair bug free.

astrosatch

Byrdsfan1948 Not in any way trying to hijack your thread here, but last night I experienced yet another problem with my ASIAIR PRO that seems to lend credence to your very reasonable thought that there indeed is something very wrong in this latest ASIAIR FW update.
In my case I had actually been enjoying a few nights of the PRO working perfectly. Several flawless MF's, and no significant guiding guiding issues. Last night however out of nowhere from the start something was very wrong. In my case it was my guiding RA becoming totally out of control. To the point that the RA error was so dramatic that it made guiding completely useless. My normal fix when guiding goes crazy is first to check

I get you brother. To add to increasing number of problems. Yesterday I tried planetary imaging with video feature. Every time when changing resolution or switching from another module to video, video freezes for several seconds. Nothing devastating, but annoying nevertheless. It's strange that so many issues comes from users and we are left alone to deal with them.
As easy as 1,2,3. Really? More like, problems found 1,2,3,....

wvreeven

astrosatch Byrdsfan1948 Yes this is all very frustrating and it would help a lot if ZWO found a way to thoroughly test the ASIAir software before releasing it. But apparently that is difficult. I am not defending them, only drawing conclusions.

They depend on user feedback for improving this product. So perhaps next time this happens you can make available the logs (which regrettably only can be uploaded as long as ASIAir still is running after the error happens) so they can actually receive useful feedback to will help them to trace the problem?

Byrdsfan1948

wvreeven#50076 I just tried again tonight and I got exactly the same results. Totally unable to calibrate for guiding, and as a result completely unable to guide at all. What drives me crazy here is that until last night I was experiencing no problems with this latest update. Then, for no apparent reason that I can tell, in the course of just 24 hours I have gone from shooting multiple targets trouble free, in PLAN mode, to essentially having my $300 ASIAIR PRO make my thousands of dollars in other investments in this very expensive hobby, totally worthless. Another rare clear night wasted!! Even more frustrating is that with my Ioptron CEM25ec mount and WO GT71 I can image unguided easily for at least 5 minutes still getting perfect subs........ I ended up doing that last night. But if I can't guide, I can't dither, so those otherwise perfect subs are still worthless. I'll try again tomorrow night, or next night the skies cooperate, and if the problem persists, I'll try sending a log. But frankly this is becoming very tiresome. This product should just work..... Not be a constant source of trouble. If my car was as dependable as my ASIAIR, I would sell my car 1,2,3, and go back to peddling a bike !!!!!!

wvreeven

Byrdsfan1948 Like I wrote, I understand your frustration! Is your ASIAir connected to internet when you are imaging? If yes, next time in the mobile app go to About and then upload the runtime log. That way ZWO can inspect what happened and hopefully create a fix.

Byrdsfan1948

wvreeven Thanks for understanding my frustration. It's morning now so I've had about 12 hours or so to cool down :-))) .
To answer your question, when I am imaging my ASIAIR Pro is connected directly to my home WIFI network router via an Ethernet cable. Since I only image from near my house in my back yard, that solution to the PRO's WIFI problem works perfectly for me. I assume since I can access and download APPS etc such as the ASIAIR APP with that connection I should be able to do as you suggest. I just went to the ABOUT function you mentioned and checked it out.

As we can see just at this forum site the list of problems with this product ( or FW ) is pretty daunting. While some is probably simply user error, there are far too many others that clearly are not. I have so far not seen anyone else on this site, or in the various Facebook groups, mention the problem I have, namely the inability to even start the re calibration process.
That does make me worry that in my case it is some user error. However I done the calibration and re calibration before hundreds of times and never once ever had even the slightest problem. Plus, since that process is so simple, just how could anyone, even someone as obtuse as myself, possibly screw it up anyway? :-))
I do have a brand new spare PRO I could try swapping out, but since everything else is working fine I seriously doubt that would help.
It's my understanding that we can revert back to the previous FW update 8.33 from the current one? Is that correct? If so that might be my best option to try at this point. Unfortunately here in New England our few days this month of clear nights is over!! It maybe another week before I can try imaging again...... However since all I need is a half hour to an hour of some breaks in the clouds to at least see if I can get the calibration process resolved hopefully the next night or two might give me that chance.
Lastly, again my apologies to ASTROSATCH Sorry if I've hijacked your thread!!!

wvreeven

Byrdsfan1948 what mount do you use, by the way? And do you use any external software connected to AAP, like SkySafari?

Byrdsfan1948

wvreeven I use the Iopton CEM25EC. My scope is the WO GT71 and my guide scope is the WO 200mm. Cameras are the ZWO183MC PRO and I have both the 120mm and 290mm guide cameras. Currently I'm using the 290mm. Lastly the ZWO EAF......... No other external software.

BTW While I was poking around in that ABOUT area you mentioned apparently I uploaded my logs and sent them to ZWO. That was not my intention at the time, but off went whatever I sent them. I already got a "generic" response saying they have received, and will review them. What ever I sent :-))). So obviously I can send them something next time I'm up and running if this problem persists.

Byrdsfan1948

wvreeven I MAY have found the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I noticed at the bottom on my guide camera page a toggle switch that is called "Auto Restore Calibration"....... In my case it was set to "ON". From what I read under the little question mark there, I think it is saying that when it is toggled 'ON" it will NOT re calibrate but just keep restoring the last calibration. Apparently, that could be useful for someone who may have an observatory or some more permanent set up, and not need or want to re calibrate often. If that is the case, then obviously in my situation it needs to be set to "OFF ". Since this problem came on the other night literally like flipping a switch, I'm now assuming I must have always had it set to "OFF", and somehow the other night, I unknowingly set it to "ON". I now have it set to "OFF". At this point this makes perfect sense to me as the cause of my sudden problem. If I can get even just 1/2 hour opportunity tonight even through hazy skies to check this out, I certainly will......... If this solves my problem, I will be far more than thrilled to accept this as human error on MY part !!!!!!!!!!!!

astrosatch

Byrdsfan1948 I MAY have found the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I noticed at the bottom on my guide camera page a toggle switch that is called "Auto Restore Calibration"....... In my case it was set to "ON". From what I read under the little question mark there, I think it is saying that when it is toggled 'ON" it will NOT re calibrate but just keep restoring the last calibration. Apparently, that could be useful for someone who may have an observatory or some more permanent set up, and not need or want to re calibrate often. If that is the case, then obviously in my situation it needs to be set to "OFF ". Since this problem came on the other night literally like flipping a switch, I'm now assuming I must have always had it set to "OFF", and somehow the other night, I unknowingly set it to "ON". I now have it set to "OFF". At this point this makes perfect sense to me as the cause of my sudden problem. If I can get even just 1/2 hour opportunity tonight even through hazy skies to check this out, I certainly will......... If this solves my problem, I will be far more than thrilled to accept this as human error on MY part !!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't worry about hijacking Byrdsfan. The more the merrier. 😄 I hope you solve your problem. I can’t see though why would auto restore calibration do that, but you never know what you're gonna get from this little red box.
Cross my fingers.

Byrdsfan1948

Byrdsfan1948 GOOD NEWS!!!!!! THAT WAS THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thankfully the skies cooperated enough tonight for me to try again. After switching Auto Restore. to the "OFF" position I was able to re calibrate as usual....... Obviously at some point I had unknowingly and apparently inadvertently, switched that to "ON"!! MY BAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Byrdsfan1948

astrosatch Thank you so much Astro. I really feel badly by unintentionally making your thread all about my problem. Unfortunately one of the problems we are dealing with here with ZWO is a language problem. I often find their translations into English leave much to be desired. I'm an engineer by trade, so I am used to resolving problems by dissecting very precise details. Too often the translation into English leaves a lot to be desired. However who am I to complain since their English is far better than my Chinese!! In any case, from what I can decipher from their explanation of the function of "Auto Restore Calibration" the result of having that function set to "ON" should give me exactly the result or problem I have suddenly encountered. My fingers are crossed too!! Right now it looks like I could get enough semi clear skies tonight to see if by setting that to "OFF" my problem is solved. I'll certainly report the results.

So back to your problem. Any change in your DEC issues? I must agree with Chen that until this issue for me I felt ZWO had resolved the guiding problems with the 1.6 FW release and if anything they got better with the 1.7 FW releases. Until my current problem............... Which hopefully is really a user error on my end........ Even if I don't recall ever playing with that Auto Restore Calibration toggle.
This hobby maybe just a bit too complex for me at this point in my life. If this does not fix my problem I may just head back to to my music studio with my musical friends and get back to doing more recordings. There at least when we do something we always know what the results will be !! :-)

w7ay

Byrdsfan1948 "Auto Restore Calibration" the result of having that function set to "ON" should give me exactly the result or problem I have suddenly encountered.

Auto Restore Calibration simply uses the calibration that you had before shutting down ASIAIR the last time. Your polar alignment, mount leveling and guide camera angle and pier side have to be precisely as before. This is not just with ASIAIR but also if you are using the native PHD2.

This means that if you had calibrated with the OTA on the west the night earlier, and now try to reuse the guide parameters, you will need to flip the guide calibrations with the OTA on the east of the pier.

Do not reuse guide calibrations unless you have a pier set in concrete a few feet into the ground, not removed the mount, and be sure that the guide camera position and camera angle relative to the mount have not changed.

Chen

Byrdsfan1948

w7ay EXACTLY!!! Unfortunately since I had never had this problem before I had no idea it's source. After some digging I stumbled across the Auto Restore Calibration slide. After reading it's function things made sense. I must have inadvertently switched it from "OFF" to "ON". between sessions. Tonight it was just clear enough, long enough, for me to set up and run a short test with it turned "OFF". Problem solved. I was able to run a quick PLAN mode of 10 shots. All went perfectly. Calibration, auto focus, guiding ( under .50 rms error,) and of course the short run, return to home, and shut down! Still learning about some functions and how to use this little box.

astrosatch

Byrdsfan1948
Great news! I'm glad you succeeded solving your problem. I still have dec jumps. At the moment I'm doing some planetary imaging and don't guide. Maybe I'll try turning off calibration restore too. It might for some strange reason actually work. Or not. We'll see.

Andrej

Byrdsfan1948

astrosatch AHHH!!! are you saying you have been having this DEC issue at the same time you had/have that Auto Restore Calibration set to "ON"?? I assume you do not have a permanent mount set up or observatory, but like me sort of a grab and go set up? If so, then by all means turn that "OFF" and then re calibrate!! Now that we understand what the real function of Auto Restore Calibration is we know it's function is NOT intended for those of us who do not have a permanent set up. I totally agree with Chen's comments above on this matter. If you move your mount at all, DO NOT have Auto Restore Calibration set to "ON". I've learned the hard way, but at least now learned!

Since the 1.6 FW update the crazy guiding problems I was having with the 1.5.1 FW seem to have largely been resolved. However I still often get the same DEC, jumps it sounds like you are now getting. Usually as guiding is started, and then continuing. I have found that re calibrating so far has always resolved that problem.
In fact the other night as my PLAN program started my guide graph quickly showed that problem. I stopped the PLAN and tried to re calibrate as usual. That was when I found that I could not......... Of course now we know why......... Last night after turning that switch to "OFF", I was able to again re-calibrate and guide again. The result was guiding about as good I as can get with about a total .50 RMS error.

BY ALL MEANS turn that "OFF"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would be THRILLED to learn that solving my problem in your thread I "hijacked", solves your too!!!!!!!!! :-)))) FINGERS DOUBLY CROSSED!!!!

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