New Asiair Plus just keep stopping cooled camera in Autorun mode.

BenBret-1

I already posted on ZWO ASIAIR facebook + on the Asi533 camera, but so far i never been able to fix that isse, let me explain.

Just started to use and configure a new Asiair Plus this weekend with also a brand new Asi533mc Pro,
The AAP get updated to the v2 firmware version during the initialization process.
I'm using two genuine dedicated zwo 12v 5A power supply. One for the AAP, and another one for the cooled camera asi533mc Pro. ( for test purpose )
Both power supply were tested with a multimeter , and the average output voltage was around 12.35v to 12.2v
( Till now, i'm powering with two independent zwo 120v to 12v 5A adaptor for trouble shooting puspose only.)
As far as i know, the ASIAIR Plus should be able to power the asi533mc cooled camera with one of their 12v output port.
Also just for testing, there is nothing else plugged on the AAP other than the Camera USB3 cable. ( no mounth, no guide camera, nothing else )

I tried to create my dark frames library with different exposures length through the AAP ** Autorun ** , but I ran into an intermitent camera cooling issues where the camera just stopped to get cooled. ( cooling fan intermitently stop and restart just after by shutting down the cooling at the same time )
What i've seen so far, It's happening after a frame get captured by the camera and while saving it and it could be on the internal AAP storage area, or a usb, or on a micro SD too.
At least it's what it looks like.
When it's happening, more than often I'm getting an alarm on my Ipad mini screen, The exposure failed, the auto run stopped

I first thought it was a camera issue with my cooling temp target ( -15c or -10c ) , but even selecting a + cooling temp like +5c was also causing that issue.

For testing I ran the camera through the zwo AsiStudio V1.7 software instead on my laptop, and it ran for about 6 hours to creating my dark library at different exposures, and the camera cooling never stopped while capturing my dark frames at -15c.
So the camera seems to be fine when connected with the same 12v power supply to my laptop.

Lastly last night I retried to build some dark frames in autorun on the AAP , but the camera cooling was still intermittently stoping the cooling fan and the cooling process itself.
I deleted all AAP autorun presets and tried the firmware reset on the AAP.
I tried the Firmware reset twice and it reloaded the latest firmware v2 after the process , but unfortunately I'm still getting that exact same issue.

If anybody have ever experienced something similar and have figured out how to solve it, please let me know.

Regards

Benoit

w7ay

BenBret-1 As far as i know, the ASIAIR Plus should be able to power the asi533mc cooled camera with one of their 12v output port.

You need a clean 12V source that is capable of 3A. Source the camera directly from a good power supply instead of through the ASIAIR's "DC" output.

Make sure that you use a 5.5mm/2.1mm axial power connector and not a 5.5mm/2.5 mm to connect to power. Strain relief both the USB 3 connector and the DC input to the camera. Just fold them back towards the camera body and use Gaffer tape, duct tape, velcro straps, or 3D printed retainers. Don't let any cable simply dangle from a connector towards the ground.

Chen

BenBret-1

I completly isolated the power source by using a clean power souce from a genuine ZWO AC-DC 12V 5A power supply that was plugged on a APC ups battery backup.
I also tried to directly plug the ZWO power supply in the wall outlet, but i've got the same result.

As i said before, i first started to power the 533MC Pro from the AsiAir 12v output which was also outputing a steady 12.2V
but the camera cooling was still unstable that way. So from there i stopped powering the 533MC from the AAP and i started to used another ZWO Power Supply ( ZWO-AC-DC12V5A ), but still getting the same issue.

I i said before, when powering the camera alone with the same ZWO-AC-DC12V5A adaptor and controlled through my laptop and AsiStudio, every thing was fine without any cooling issue.

What i'm saying is that even when the camera is independtly powered with a tested and direct power source( ZWO-AC-DC12V5A), as long as the camera is driven by the AsiAir though the AutoRun auto process, it always failed

w7ay

BenBret-1 AsiStudio, every thing was fine without any cooling issue.

What are you using for the USB 3 cable between the ASIAIR and the camera? Do not use the long flat cable that comes with the camera. Get a shielded one (usually quite fat) that is just long enough to reach the between the ASIAIR and the camera. And as described earlier, strain relieve the cable to the body of the camera.

Chen

BenBret-1

i will check all my usb3 cable too and will try some more, thanks

Also just wondering about what would be the best voltage output from the power supply?
Some seems to prefere a 12v more on the high end side like amost 13v and I've seen some powering their AAP above 13v and even more.
Both power supply from ZWO that i have are only giving 12.2v to 12.35v , just wondering.

w7ay

BenBret-1 Also what would be the best voltage output from the power supply, other people seems to prefere a 12v more on the high end side like amost 13v
Both power supply from ZWO that i have are only giving 12.2v to 12.35v , just wondering.

Benoit,

The specs for the third generation ASIAIR (the first one that was named the "Plus" model; there is also a fourth generation ASIAIR called "Plus") calls for 11V to 15V. However, that specs is bogus (non-existent QA). I went through two of them that will not boot when the supply voltage is over about 13.75V -- note that a fully charged SLA battery is 13.8V).

I myself use a 25A supply that is factory set to 14.2V, which I had to adjust to 13.75 volts when I started using the a third gen ASIAIR. All of my other equipment worked fine with the original factory supply voltage.

As long as your ASIAIR will boot, the high side of the voltage is not critical since there is a buck regulator inside to convert to 5V that the Raspberry Pi based processors use (actually further regulated down to 3.3V). Your 12.2 volts is ample.

I do not know what the true voltage range is for the fourth generation ASIAIRs (two models so far, both based on the Rockchip instead of Raspberry Pi)

What is more critical is how dirty the power is since it is used to supply the PWM circuits for the controlled DC outputs. I had never scoped to see how dirty the 12V outputs are, since I avoid using any of those outputs.

Some mounts, on the other hand, work better with higher supply voltages. I have a separate boost regulator supplying my RainbowAstro mount with 15V from a homebrew uninterruptable DC supply (to prevent backdriving in case of power loss).

Chen

BenBret-1

How can I tell which asiair plus version I've got, I'm just wondering for my personal information ?
I received mine at the end of this last December 2022, but I just started to use it recently instead of using NINA on my laptop which is very stable but less convenient or portable.

Other observations after couple more tests done tonight with the AAP. I completely removed the micro SD from its internal socket and just plugged an old USB stick instead in one of the AAP usb3 port. Little improvement vs all other attempts or may be just a luck, but i was able to almost complete two series of 30 frames of 5 sec without getting cooling interruption.
May be the usb stick takes less voltage than using a micro SD ? ?

As I said before , when 533mc Pro cooling process is interrupted, it always happened while saving the file.
Ex: While taking long frames exposure like 10 minutes frame, the cooling never get interrupted while imaging, never ..., it only happened while saving the file at the end of the capture.
Just want to make it clear.

By the way thanks for all you input.

w7ay

BenBret-1 How can I tell which asiair plus version I've got, I'm just wondering for my personal information ?

Here is a picture of the boxes for the two generations of the "Plus" that I have. The Raspberry CM4 version is on the left, and the Rockchip version is on the right.

Little improvement vs all other attempts or may be just a luck, but i was able to almost complete two series of 30 frames of 5 sec without getting cooling interruption.

Could just be luck, or could even be the temperature outdoors became a little warmer. I would try better shielded (and perhaps shorter) cables. Some ZWO camera don't even work when the USB 3 cable is over 1 meter long.

I just started to use it recently instead of using NINA on my laptop which is very stable but less convenient or portable.

If you need the same portability as ASIAIR, INDIGO Sky runs on a Raspberry Pi 4. I have two Rpi-4 running INDIGO Sky on my desk at the moment, one connected to WiFi and Ethernet, and the other just through WiFi, while I develop a macOS program for INDIGO. Not a single connection problem (even the WiFi one running internal WiFi antenna). I haven't had to reboot them since the last time we lost power because of a Winter storm. And, like N.I.N.A., you are also not stuck with having to use ZWO cameras.

Chen

w7ay

BenBret-1 it always happened while saving the file.

Is power fed differently when you use ASIstudio vs when you use ASIAIR? Are you running at least 18 AWG wires for the power?

By the way, if you are feeding ASIAIR and the camera from two different power supplies, make sure to bond the ground returns (the negative leads) of the two supplies together with a heavy gauge wire.

If I were you, I would set the ASIAIR up completely stand-alone, with only power and camera connected to it (and Ethernet, if you use Ethernet instead of WiFi). No mount, no dew heaters, no guide camera, not EFW or EAF, and nothing connected to the ASIAIR power output. Similarly, nothing connected to the camera but the USB 3 port and power. At warmer room temperature. See if you can get a stable image capture.

If it is stable, you can then slowly recombine your original setup back, changing only one component at a time (including moving it from indoors to outdoors), to see which one leads to instability.

By the way, another thing you can try is to use a USB 2.0 cable (the one where the Type B end does not have the USB 3 bulge). See if that is more stable. If that works, it won't really be that slow with the small IMX533 sensor. Sorry I forgot to mention is as a possible work around.

Good luck,
Chen

BenBret-1

The AAP version I have is like the one at the left side of your picture .

The AsiStudio tests were done using the same 120v to 12v 5A zwo power supply to power the camera.
I'm also using the same zwo USB3 cable (a short one that was supplied with my AM5) same usb3 cable as I used for all my tests done on the AAP, but instead plugged in one of the usb3 ports on my laptop .
It also worth to mention that nothing else were plugged on the camera in all my last tests, and also done all inside ( just taking dark frames for test purpose )
I simply used the same power source and same usb3 cable for both testing methods ( laptop + AsiStudio or AAP and NO mounth EFW , guide scope or else involved, nothing else just the asi533mc Pro involved in all those tests)
When using the AAP, it is powered with another independent 120v to 12v 5A power supply, and the AAP 12v outputs were not used at all.

I will give a try with another usb2 cable like you said and see if it's getting more stable with the AAP.

I will also look to get another better shielded usb3 cable and see if it can help with the AAP.

I will also try to find and test the AAP with another power supply with a bit more voltage, a bit more on the 13v side and see if it changed anything.

I need to be very cautious and I'm taking notes of all different things I'm trying while trying and investigating to solve that issue.

Again thank you for all your inputs, I will make more testing in the next comming days and let you know.

Ben

w7ay

BenBret-1 I will also try to find and test the AAP with another power supply with a bit more voltage, a bit more on the 13v side and see if it changed anything.

Hi Ben,

I don't think that should matter. But if you have the extra power supply and the time, please try it and come back to post what you find out. It would be a big head scratcher if it mattered!

Good luck.

Chen

Swizerlan

Ben, I dont trust cheap power supplies because they often do not perform the way they are advertised. If the psu calls for 5a, I buy 10a. A 5a psu will struggle if you consistently push 5amps. How cool are you running your camera btw? I dont use a benchtop supply, maybe oneday. For now I use power plus psu’s power my asi air and my 2600mc runs on the asi air 12v out. My mount runs on a second dedicated power plus psu. These psu’s have never given me issues and are very well built, thick cables and high quality molding. Also these are made in Taiwan.

120W Power Converter Adapter Inverter - AC to DC 12V 10A 110V 220V to 12V Car Socket Universal UL Listed Extra Long Cord Travel USA Business https://a.co/d/0td8XSO

BenBret-1

Swizerlan I agree, 10A should be better.

What is the current output voltage that your getting with a multimeter from that Power supply while unload ?

Also, what's the voltage shown on the AAP on the power and output option page?

I'm just comparing power supply output voltage from you guys that never experienced any cooling instability issue with their cooled cameras also controlled by the AAP.
( my initial goal was to also power my cooled camera through the AAP, but till now it's just a schattered dreams)

Thanks !

w7ay

BenBret-1 Also, what's the voltage shown on the AAP on the power and output option page?

Even a cheap in-line power meter like this one will give you better, and more information (like average current draw) than what the ASIAIR displays:

https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance-Backlight/dp/B07RQP6HHN

Amazon has a number of them... I think they are just copycats of one another.

I have crimped on PowerPole adapters at the end of the pigtails of mine, since that is what I use to distribute power. I have three or four of them, since I found them to be more convenient than a multi-meter (that being said, my Fluke 76 has lasted me from the 1990s; the old Flukes are really very solid meters).

By the way, there are also in-line meters of both USB Type A and USB-C varieties. Some of the USB-C ones will actually read out the different USB-C Power Delivery voltages (which can be 5V, 9V, ... etc). It is another thing that will be useful (recall that USB output current from a Raspberry Pi is quite limited).

Chen

BenBret-1

w7ay Thanks for all those information, I will look at it more closely tonight and see If I can get it fast from Amazon👍

BenBret-1

w7ay Just to keep you informed, I've just been able to test my asi533mc pro on another asiair plus.
The ZWO engineer were right the last time they analysed my log files , my 533mc pro is faulty but not the asiair.
My 533mc pro behaved exactly the same way on that other asiair plus and stopped the 533mc Pro cooling while imaging.

Just to confirm that my asiair plus was not also part of that issue, I also tested my AAP with another zwo cooled camera (asi2600mc Pro), and I've been able to succesfully makes an extended Dark frames library without any camera cooling interruption.

I even pushed my asiair plus by powering the asi2600mc pro with one of the asiair 12v output port insted of using my other AC/DC 12v adaptor.
The asi2600mc Pro anti dew heater was also ON during that test which was also draining more power from the AAP 12V output without any instability.
The 2600mc pro was also powering the guide scope camera and the EFW through these two usb2 ports during that stability test. ( camera cooled at -10c)

With that been said, that was a very confusing issue because that 533mc pro camera ran fine without any cooling issues while controlled through my laptop with different imaging softwares ( NINA and AsiStudio), but for some raisons it never ran stable through two differets AAP.

BenBret-1

Last update,
I've got another high speed shielded usb3 cable and tried it in the two usb3 available ports on the asiair, but it did not helped or fix the issue.

I removed from the asiair the usb stick and also the micro SD, but the cooling is unfortunately still getting interrupted like I said before, while saving the file now on the eMMc area.

With that been said, I've pretty much tried every thing I can.
I stripped out the asiair completely and only kept the camera attached to the asiair with a usb3 cable, and powering the camera with a dedicated 12v ac/dc adaptor , and the same thing for the asiair ( Did that for all tests done in the last couple days)

In parallel, I opened a ZWO support tickets and sent multiples asiair logs.
I will see what's going to happen next, but I really think there is something wrong with that unit causing that instability issue for the attached cooled camera ( asi533mc Pro ), which is by the way running fine while controlling it through my laptop with asiStudio or NiNA, also using the same usb3 cable and same ac/dc 12v power supply.

I will keep you updated

Ben

BenBret-1

Last Update
I just received a zwo email regarding the asiair log files i sent, and I was blown away....
According to what they seen in their logs analysis done by their engineers, the asi533mc Pro should be the root cause of that issue and not the asiair.

Really weird .... again i ran the camera last night through my laptop with asiStudio for testing and all went fine.... ???

I'm just hopping their right about the camera instead of the asiair.
I'm just hopping that I will not need to also send the Asiair plus later on too for repair....

Walf@ZWO

BenBret-1 we are following your problem of 533.

BenBret-1

Walf@ZWO

Walf@ZWO I sent my two last reports to ZWO Support, one last friday + the last one yesterday evening in reference to my Support ID no. but haven't get any reply from ZWO since last week. ???

Please advise about next steps and how to proceed to get a replacement through the store from where I purchased it, or for à ZWO repair ???

Thank you for your support!

Benoit

BenBret-1

Walf@ZWO How long does it usually takes to get support from zwo and to get a new camera replaced or repaired ? just wondering ?